D&D 5E Removing the HP Bloat

[MichaelSomething]

Tired: Complaining about HP Bloat
Wired: Tripling damage instead

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The longest I had was three 8-hours long game sessions with a party over level 20 (3.5E).

That was then. My new record for longest fight in 5e was the finish of RotFM, which stretched over 3 3.5-hour sessions.

But 3/3.5e was slow, which is why I never played it that much.

 

[Dragonsbane]

So, why am I doing this? BECAUSE COMBAT TAKES WAY TOO LONG! The culprit? Hit point bloat (IMO anyway).

Bingo. We switched to Cypher System and run DnD modules and campaigns there now. No HP! Just Might, Speed, and Intellect pools used for rolls and health together. Yummy.

 

[Nefermandias]

Not my experience. I am not sure if any foes they fought in any of the 5e stuff I ran, ToD and OotA, along with some stand alone stuff, lasted more than 3 rounds. Demogorgon lasted 3 against a 10-11th level party. And I gave him max HP. But 5e is very swingy due to crits being IMO vastly overpowered. Its really a luck of the dice and if you crit on an attack with bonus dice damage then watch out! If I ran 5e again I'd find a way to make some combats go longer.

How are 5e crits "vastly overpowered" when compared to 3e or 4e?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

How are 5e crits "vastly overpowered" when compared to 3e or 4e?

IME fights were pretty much entirely determined on the crits, which isn't unique to 5e but doubling all damage dice gets crazy. Paladin smites and rogue sneak attacks when they are getting crits do a massive amount of damage. Just seeing how the demons princes were pretty much a joke due to crits was a bit of a letdown from a story standpoint. In what I'm running now a nat 20 is just max damage which makes it better IMO. Again IME and maybe yours is different.

But I'm not a big fan of crits to begin with. I'm better with it just being an automatic hit.

And its been so long since I played 3e, and never ran 4e I'm not sure I can remember if it was the same outcome.

 

[Nefermandias]

IME fights were pretty much entirely determined on the crits, which isn't unique to 5e but doubling all damage dice gets crazy. Paladin smites and rogue sneak attacks when they are getting crits do a massive amount of damage. Just seeing how the demons princes were pretty much a joke due to crits was a bit of a letdown from a story standpoint. In what I'm running now a nat 20 is just max damage which makes it better IMO. Again IME and maybe yours is different.

But I'm not a big fan of crits to begin with. I'm better with it just being an automatic hit.

And its been so long since I played 3e, and never ran 4e I'm not sure I can remember if it was the same outcome.

That's not what I asked.
I asked how 5e crits are stronger than the previous versions. Because it's not.

Back in 3e, you doubled all the dice AND modifiers. Besides, some weapons like axes and bows did triple damage on critical hits, pickaxes and scythes did quadruple.

Back in 4e, all the dice were maxed and you rolled additional dice based on the strength of your weapon.

5e critical hits are the tamest we had in 21 years.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Okay. I'm not sure I compared it to 3e, or 4e which I have no experience with. So I'm not sure why you are trying to argue this. IME crits in 5e is not a good system, and I guess that would apply to 3e as well though it has been years since I played it and far longer since I ran it. 4e I skipped entirely so I'll take your word for how it ran. So I'll agree with you I guess, the 5e version isn't very good, but less so than 3e.

 

[GMMichael]

So, why am I doing this? BECAUSE COMBAT TAKES WAY TOO LONG! The culprit? Hit point bloat (IMO anyway).

It also has some great side-effects!

1. It really makes low CR creatures more potent because not only can they hit, but when they do it matters MORE. . .

2. Scary monsters are SCARY, I mean like WOW, SCARY! . . .

3. Magic kills. . .

Good call. Elegant. Thought-provoking.

Here's another: defenses and saves require actions/reactions.

Full defense: you get no attacks, regular movement, and you can defend (use AC and saves) as normal for the round.
Reaction defense: you can use your reaction to apply AC to one attack. Alternatively, your reaction gives you one chance to save during the round.
Alternate movement: if you don't move during the round, you get an additional AC/save reaction.
Otherwise: attacks are auto-hits.

Does this work? Um...

1. Low CR creatures are immediately more potent if they're surrounding you.
2. Scary monsters force (at least) one PC to tank - take the hits by defending. Also - breath weapons become awesome.
3. Magic kills - because you have to choose if you want to defend against the caster's minion, or the caster's spell(s).
4. This could eliminate the need for "opportunity attacks," which are just supposed to make combat "sticky," by providing an alternate use for a character's movement.
5. HP may be bloaty, but they drop fast (without tactics).