Removing the penalty for multiple attacks

Wolfspider

Explorer
What do you think about removing the 5-point cumulative penalty that occurs with multiple attacks? Instead of a 10th level fighter have two attacks at +10/+5, what if those two attacks were at +10/+10?

I think that this would get rid of the "whiff effect" that multiple attacks can have. What kind of impact do you think such a change would have?

Previous editions haven't penalized multiple attacks. I'm curious what would happen if v.3.5 didn't either....
 

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gnfnrf

First Post
Wolfspider said:
What do you think about removing the 5-point cumulative penalty that occurs with multiple attacks? Instead of a 10th level fighter have two attacks at +10/+5, what if those two attacks were at +10/+10?

I think that this would get rid of the "whiff effect" that multiple attacks can have. What kind of impact do you think such a change would have?

Previous editions haven't penalized multiple attacks. I'm curious what would happen if v.3.5 didn't either....

Third edition has descending iterative attacks specifically FOR the whiff factor. The design intent (no cite, but it was extensively talked about in the buildup to 3.0) is to give the fighter a chance to miss sometimes. (And therefore to mitigate usage of things like Power Attack)

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gnfnrf
 

Shin Okada

Explorer
As gnfnrf says.

Also, this -5/-10/-15 rule is one of the important factor which are making "move and attack" maneuver a viable option. If a full attack action is simply 4 times (or more, if you are hasted or a monk) stronger then a standard attack action, no fighters will try to move first unless they have Spring Attack feat. I can easily imagine many players of warrior type PCs start to "delay my action and wait the opponent to come close, then make a full attack". I am not talking about a ready action, they will actualy start to delay their initiative order to make a full attack far much often.
 

Tequila Sunrise

Adventurer
I think it would be bad overall. Multiple attacks are definately supposed to miss more often than single attacks. I myself don't like rolling multiple dice at once each with a different bonus, so I have an house rule that a player can choose to impose a lesser penalty on all their attacks rather than imposing the cumulative -5 penalty.

TS
 

Our group eliminated the automatic multiple attacks at the -5 penalties. Instead, every character gets one attack per round (with certain weapons being excepted) unless they take a feat like those in Star Wars Saga Edition that allows multiple attacks. (We, also, increased the number of feats that characters get a bit...)

The exceptions were that we are testing an idea for weapon speed based on three categories. Fast weapons get 3 attacks a round. Medium weapons get two attacks per round. Slow weapons get 1 attack per round. That said, we've given some weapons (usually those in the slow category) a little added benefit concerning weapon reach that may allow attacks of opportunity in some cases. They don't actually threaten an additional square, just part of additional squares. Exiting a square one way provokes while exiting it another way, may not (for example).

With all weapons being treated the same, it never made much sense to us from a metagame perspective why all warriors wouldn't run around with greatswords or great axes. No one had any motivation to use a shortsword. Now, they do.

One extra balancing factor, though, is that were using a variant damage reduciton system. So, having multiple attacks with fast weapons (that usually deal less damage) means that the damage reduction is subtracted off of each attack (but there are more chances at a critical per round, too).

I wouldn't just eliminate the -5 cumulative penalty on each additonal attack without doing something to the rest of the way the game works. Our system is working for us, so far.

Another option that we're using is a feat that allows a character to treat a favored weapon as if it is one size category larger only for purposes of dealing damage. So, instead of going the multiple attacks route, a character might take the damage increasing feat, instead. The pre-requisites are pretty hefty, though. Much more than is required for Improved Natural Attack in the MM. And, it only applies to one weapon each time the feat is taken. Improved Sunder just got more valuable, too, because people will want to be able to sunder the guy's weapon if he has that feat.

We probably spent a couple hundred hours hashing out the effects of the various rule changes we were considering. And, these seem very workable, so far.

Please, don't just eliminate the -5 cumulative penalty. It's too simple a solution that will skew the balance of power in the game a little too much for the reasons already posted by others.
 


Stalker0

Legend
You could consider a slight decrease in the penalty.

Perhaps try it at a -4 instead of a -5. Even 1 difference can have a big impact.
 

avr

First Post
This makes standing still and getting a full attack even better; I prefer the Tome of Battle approach of improving standard attacks.
 

Triangleman27

First Post
I once toyed with the idea of only letting characters attempt the next attack only if the previous connected; sort of like a combo system.

Thought it would be too "video-gamey" though.
 

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