Repeat saves against the same effect

[Menexenus]

It is not uncommon for a group of adventurers to find themselves fighting multiple copies of the same type of monster. (For instance, a low level party might find itself fighting 5 or 10 troglodytes.) What if that monster has a special attack that requires a saving throw? (For instance, the troglodyte has the Stench extraordinary ability which requires all within 30 ft. to make a Fort save or temporarily lose 1D6 STR and become "nauseated," which means you can't attack or cast spells and can only move half!) Does this mean that every PC must make 5-10 saves against the very same effect? Although that seems to be implied by the rules, that seems somewhat unreasonable to me.

Let's take the Troglodyte example. If I am able to make one save against one troglodyte's Stench, doesn't that mean that the smell doesn't bother/overcome me? So why would it overcome me the next time I smell it? I can see saying that multiple creatures make the smell more potent, but maybe that should just add to the DC of the original save rather than forcing multiple saves...

After all, as we all know, ones happen. That means the chances are pretty good that even a party of very high level adventures could be overcome by just a small tribe of 20-30 measly troglodytes. (You're probably going to roll a 1 once in 20-30 saving throws.)

Surely, someone has come up with some balanced house rule to make multiple/repeat saves against the same effect more reasonable in 3E or 3.5E. If you know of such a house rule, could you please explain it or direct me to a website where I can find it?

Thanks in adavance!

 

[Pinotage]

Well, the 3.5e version is much more reasonable. If you fail the save, you simply become sickened, taking a -2 penalty on attacks, checks, skills, etc. 3e version was much worse. You still have to make the save against each troglodyte (indicated by the fact that it mentions immunity to only one trogolodyte on a successful save), implying that they get really nasty in higher numbers, but in 3.5e the worst is the -2 penalty that won't stack from multiple failures of the saving throw.

Stench (Ex)
When a troglodyte is angry or frightened, it secretes an oily, musk-like chemical that nearly every form of animal life finds offensive. All living creatures (except troglodytes) within 30 feet of a troglodyte must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be sickened for 10 rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same troglodyte’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.

Pinotage

 

[Jarrod]

Actually, if I remember right, the 3.0 Trog is just written badly. Doesn't it say something like "becomes nauseous, taking a penalty to strength"? I know we read that as "nauseated", but it isn't -- it's "nauseous", flavor text, taking a "penalty to strength".

They just cleared it up in 3.5. Before that a group of troglodytes was _death_.

 

[Nail]

Let's take the Troglodyte example. If I am able to make one save against one troglodyte's Stench, doesn't that mean that the smell doesn't bother/overcome me?

The smell of that particular trog can no longer affect you.

So why would it overcome me the next time I smell it?

If you are in the Aoe of a mage's Stinking Cloud, and successfully save...... why should you have to save again if another mage hits you with another one?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Speaking from personal experience, one can easily be nauseated by something they had resisted in the past. Why, just the other day I became a bit quesy watching an episode of Fear Factor on television. I'd seen episodes before that where the contestants ate some pretty horrendous stuff, but for some reason that episode got to me.

I see no reason why a horrible stench (and I can imagine a few) wouldn't cause one to almost gag at one time, and completely lose their lunch another.

 

[cmanos]

if you want a house rule you could always add to the DC for every trog in range and just roll one save. The issue with this is in large numbers, they would have a DC so high it woul;d be nigh impossible to save. Wheras multiple saves gives you a chance every time to save or fail.

 

[Infiniti2000]

if you want a house rule you could always add to the DC for every trog in range and just roll one save. The issue with this is in large numbers, they would have a DC so high it woul;d be nigh impossible to save. Wheras multiple saves gives you a chance every time to save or fail.

I really advise against this approach. It will increase the odds dramatically with just a few creatures and carrying the concept to other creature's abilities (namely fear) makes them FAR more powerful. Granted, a trog ability is not so bad in 3.5, but say a rilmani's would spell disaster.

 

[Pinotage]

I really advise against this approach. It will increase the odds dramatically with just a few creatures and carrying the concept to other creature's abilities (namely fear) makes them FAR more powerful. Granted, a trog ability is not so bad in 3.5, but say a rilmani's would spell disaster.

Statistically it's not that bad. Let's take two critters, CR 3, and a level 3 Fighter. Fort save +6, saves 70% of the time. Having to save twice against a DC 13 save implies 49% success rate, rather than 70%. Even if you increase the DC by 2 for each extra trog, the save only increases linearly by 10%. The 'power' scaling for multiple trogs is much worse than a linear one.

Pinotage

 

[Bullgrit]

Statistically it's not that bad. Let's take two critters, CR 3, and a level 3 Fighter. Fort save +6, saves 70% of the time. Having to save twice against a DC 13 save implies 49% success rate, rather than 70%. Even if you increase the DC by 2 for each extra trog, the save only increases linearly by 10%. The 'power' scaling for multiple trogs is much worse than a linear one.

What the numbers with more trogs? I've considered this concept before, too.

Bullgrit

 

[Nail]

What the numbers with more trogs?

Assume a Ftr has a 70% chance to save against an individual Trog's stench.

Against multiple trogs, his chance of success (vs all saves) would be:

# of trogs	multi-saves
    1	        70%
    2	        49%
    3	        34%
    4	        24%
    5	        17%
    6	        12%
    7	        8%
    8	        6%
    9	        4%
    10	        3%
    11	        2%
    12	        1%
    13	        1%