Repeat saves against the same effect

[Nail]

...whereas, if you changed the RAW so that each extra Trog added 1 to the DC, you'd get:

# of trogs	multi-saves
    1	        70%
    2	        65%
    3	        60%
    4	        55%
    5	        50%
    6	        45%
    7	        40%
    8	        35%
    9	        30%
    10	        25%
    11	        20%
    12	        15%
    13	        10%

If I was a player, I'd go for this option! .....eh, I2K?

 

[Infiniti2000]

*grumble grumble*

Sure, use statistics on me, why don't you.

*tries to futilely defend his stance*

Let me get back to you on that.

 

[Nail]

Final note:

ONLY in the "I only fail on a 1" case does the multi-save choice (the RAW choice) favor the player. In all other situations, the (house rule) "one save, modified by # of Trogs" option is better for the player.

 

[Nail]

*grumble grumble*

Sure, use statistics on me, why don't you.

*tries to futilely defend his stance*

Let me get back to you on that.

Considering how often I've been caught on the "indefensible end" of debates here....I wouldn't let this point worry you.









Much.

 

[Bullgrit]

Thank you very much, Nail. Am I correct in presuming that adding 2 to the DC for each trog beyond the first reduces the chances by 10%?

2 trogs = 60%
3 trogs = 50%
4 trogs = 40%. . .

This would seem the closer way to represent multiple rolls, yet still is better for the PCs.

Thanks.

Bullgrit

 

[Mistwell]

I suppose the question is whether or not the potency of the stench increases with the number of Trogs in the room, or if the potency is static and it's just a wider range that the stench covers, and long period of time before it clears.

Anyone know if the number of skunks in a room can influence whether or not someone is susceptable to the stench they give out?

 

[KarinsDad]

Also remember that no matter how many saves a PC makes or fails, the duration is the greatest of the "bad effects" and a single restorative spell (e.g. Neutralize Poison, Delay Poison, etc.) will negate all of it.

I think changing the rule on it and hence, changing the odds, to give the PCs an edge is setting a bad precedence. IMO.

 

[Bullgrit]

I was once in a situation where 2 harpies used their captivating song against five 5th-level PCs. That's a DC 16 Will save, twice. [EL 6 vs. APL 6.25]

Estimating, that would be Will saves of between +1 to +4 plus or minus Wisdom modifiers. So call it probably between +0 and +8.

Four PCs failed at least one of the two saves, but fortunately, the fifth PC passed both saves. And he caused enough grief to the harpies to drive them away. [Was very close to being a TPK.]

The best Will save had two chances of rolling an 8 or better (42%?). Had the DM used add 2 to the DC for each after the first, it would one chance of rolling a 10 or better (55%?).

I think changing the rule on it and hence, changing the odds, to give the PCs an edge is setting a bad precedence. IMO.

I wouldn't look at it as changing the odds to give the PCs an edge, so much as using a gimmick to cut down on die rolls for one event. And so long as it doesn't make the odds worse for the PCs, it's not a bad idea. Maybe let the Players choose which way they want to roll.

"You can roll six Fort saves vs. DC 13, or one Fort save vs. DC 23."

Bullgrit

 

[KarinsDad]

I wouldn't look at it as changing the odds to give the PCs an edge, so much as using a gimmick to cut down on die rolls for one event. And so long as it doesn't make the odds worse for the PCs, it's not a bad idea. Maybe let the Players choose which way they want to roll.

"You can roll six Fort saves vs. DC 13, or one Fort save vs. DC 23."

Let's look at the math of the percentages for both systems for various bonuses to save:

+1   0.8%   5%
+2   1.6%   5%
+3   2.8%   5%
+4   4.7%   10%
+5   7.5%   15%
+6   12%    20%
+7   18%    25%
+8   26%    30%
+9   38%    35%
+10  53%    40%
+11  74%    45%
+12  74%    50%

So, for low save PCs, it will make the odds better. For high save PCs, it will make the odds worse.

Do you still think it's a good idea?

 

[Cabral]

Why not base a DC mod on the modifier for CR. Everytime you double the number of creatures, add +2 DC. Special rule for 3 of a kind: +3 DC

# of Trogs    DC Mod
1              +0
2              +2
3              +3
4-5            +4
6-7            +5
8-11           +6
12-15          +7
16-23          +8
24-31          +9
30-47          +10
etc ...

So a community of 30 trogs would really stink and make you roll a DC 23 (base 13+10) Fort save. but you only roll once and if you make it, you're safe for 24 hrs.

By comparrison, with Cmanos's suggestion, the DC for 30 trogs would be 42 (Base 13+29)

Since 30 Trogs would be about CR 11 (Base CR 1; 30 is about 2*2*2*2*2; so 1+2+2+2+2+2 to CR) ... not exactly an epic that a DC 42 save would suggest (though, DC 23 is still high for a CR 11 encounter ...)