Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Munchkins?Seconded. Keep the game organic. Besides, expertise is for munchkins. We all know it.
Munchkins?Seconded. Keep the game organic. Besides, expertise is for munchkins. We all know it.
Really I'd like to limit it to number of times per session (as per day is largely meaningless).I’m unclear what you’re trying to accomplish with the reroll. Do you just want to limit the number of times per day rogues can benefit from their skill-enhancing feature?
In the end I probably will just do that. I'm just flirting with this idea.Or perhaps just limit the application of expertise to the skills on the class list. Thieves are good at thief stuff, sounds fair to me. That fixes the age old problem of the Rogue Arcana expert. As far as swingy goes, maybe advantage is a better option, stacking to elven accuracy when combined with an additional source of advantage. Just a thought.
I feel like that’s asking to take away the rogue’s niche. Would you want to make the Fighter not be the go-to person for fighting as well?Really I'd like to limit it to number of times per session (as per day is largely meaningless).
I guess I'd want to accomplish two things.
1) Make it so that the Rogue isn't always the go to to person for a particular area of skill. But is still exceptional when they need to be.
Ah, now that, I think, is a much more workable design goal. What about replacing expertise with reliable talent (for the chosen skills only)? Then the rogue is more reliable at their chosen areas of specialization, without having a higher ceiling than everyone else.2) Actually give the Rogue a bit more reliability at low levels. Rogues in particular need reliability because a lot of the classic rogue thing is to put themselves in positions where failure is dangerous, and they may not have the immediate support of the party. A reroll is actually better than Advantage at reasonable DCs until very late in the game.
The fighter isn't the go to person for Fighting - that's part of the issue. But I take the point that 'skill monkey' is built into the Rogue - however poor a design decision that may have been.I feel like that’s asking to take away the rogue’s niche. Would you want to make the Fighter not be the go-to person for fighting as well?
Limiting expertise to Rogue only skills works well for Rogues (and I liked it a lot and suggested it in another thread myself). Even allowing Bard to choose any skill isn't bad, especially since our house-rule allows other classes to get expertise in one background skill.Or perhaps just limit the application of expertise to the skills on the class list. Thieves are good at thief stuff, sounds fair to me. That fixes the age old problem of the Rogue Arcana expert. As far as swingy goes, maybe advantage is a better option, stacking to elven accuracy when combined with an additional source of advantage. Just a thought.
The problem is though that the Rogue skill list includes all the best skills anyway.Limiting expertise to Rogue only skills works well for Rogues (and I liked it a lot and suggested it in another thread myself). Even allowing Bard to choose any skill isn't bad, especially since our house-rule allows other classes to get expertise in one background skill.
This is why we allow any character to gain expertise at level 1 via sacking one background skill for expertise in the other. A fighter with a solider background, could have expertise in either Athletics or Intimidation by giving up proficiency in the other skill. So, a rogue with expertise in Athletics could be as good as any character with a soldier background who also chooses expertise in Athletics, etc.The problem is though that the Rogue skill list includes all the best skills anyway.
The rogue can still be a better Athlete than a Fighter or Barbarian, make the stealthy Ranger redundant in the wild, and take Persuasion and be better than everyone in the social pillar (unless you have a bard who can do the same thing).
But perhaps a narrower list is the way to go.
But that is the whole point of rogues.1) Make it so that the Rogue isn't always the go to to person for a particular area of skill.
Yes, of course. If you wanted to make a professional sportsperson character rogue would be the way to go. Because rogues are all about being really skilled at things.The rogue can still be a better Athlete than a Fighter or Barbarian
Do you actually have any players doing this? If not, then it doesn't matter. If no one uses an allowable rule, then that rule might as well not even exist.The problem is though that the Rogue skill list includes all the best skills anyway.
The rogue can still be a better Athlete than a Fighter or Barbarian, make the stealthy Ranger redundant in the wild, and take Persuasion and be better than everyone in the social pillar (unless you have a bard who can do the same thing).
But perhaps a narrower list is the way to go.