Repositioning the "Wizards Presents:" books

[Matthan]

We've had a few threads discussing the merits of the "Wizards Presents" books. The majority of people have dismissed them as being nothing but preview books and not worth the money. Scott Rouse posted a few days ago that they needed to rethink how they had positioned the books due to the negative majority opinion that was being expressed about them. Now, I had a thought in another thread and I think it got lost in the shuffle there so I want to give it a thread of its own and see what people might think.

So the idea is this, if they're trying to reposition the books, maybe they should throw in some odd incentives. Maybe include the digital key that their going to have for 4E, but instead of getting a digital copy (or in addition to) let it be used for a month or two of free D&D Insider once it completely launches. It would be an odd thing to offer free access to something that doesn't release for a few months, but it could push a few of the holdouts over the edge.

Another option would be to use it to unlock some special miniatures for the gametable or something, but that idea makes me feel dirty. I've heard different stories about whether they were going to included "collectable" or "unlockable for a fee" minis on the online table. If so (and I'm not thrilled at the concept), why not offer some limited edition minis to people who purchase the previews?

The final thought I had was make it a preview book in more ways than one, by allowing each person buying a copy to be invited to beta test the new features of D&D online (gametable and such) that do not specifically reference 4E mechanics. Kind of like what Microsoft did when they released Crackdown for the Xbox 360, they included a free pass to the beta test of Halo. The result was a lot of copies sold. And you also get beta testers. A bit of a win-win.

I don't think any of these would lift the stigma of "just being a preview". But, maybe in conjunction with reemphasizing the books as designer diaries and philosophies, including these incentives could push the books into a realm of more perceived value at little actual cost to WotC.

 

[ivocaliban]

We've had a few threads discussing the merits of the "Wizards Presents" books. The majority of people have dismissed them as being nothing but preview books and not worth the money. Scott Rouse posted a few days ago that they needed to rethink how they had positioned the books due to the negative majority opinion that was being expressed about them. Now, I had a thought in another thread and I think it got lost in the shuffle there so I want to give it a thread of its own and see what people might think.

So the idea is this, if they're trying to reposition the books, maybe they should throw in some odd incentives. Maybe include the digital key that their going to have for 4E, but instead of getting a digital copy (or in addition to) let it be used for a month or two of free D&D Insider once it completely launches. It would be an odd thing to offer free access to something that doesn't release for a few months, but it could push a few of the holdouts over the edge.

Another option would be to use it to unlock some special miniatures for the gametable or something, but that idea makes me feel dirty. I've heard different stories about whether they were going to included "collectable" or "unlockable for a fee" minis on the online table. If so (and I'm not thrilled at the concept), why not offer some limited edition minis to people who purchase the previews?

The final thought I had was make it a preview book in more ways than one, by allowing each person buying a copy to be invited to beta test the new features of D&D online (gametable and such) that do not specifically reference 4E mechanics. Kind of like what Microsoft did when they released Crackdown for the Xbox 360, they included a free pass to the beta test of Halo. The result was a lot of copies sold. And you also get beta testers. A bit of a win-win.

I don't think any of these would lift the stigma of "just being a preview". But, maybe in conjunction with reemphasizing the books as designer diaries and philosophies, including these incentives could push the books into a realm of more perceived value at little actual cost to WotC.

You've got some interesting marketing strategies there, I'll admit. The problem? One reason I don't want to buy the "Wizards Presents" books is that the very idea of selling previews is a marketing gimmick. I don't buy movie trailers or video game demos and I wouldn't buy rpg previews either. Even if they throw in a coupon for $0.50 off a six pack of Orcus Mountain Dew.

For those who want to buy them, that's fine. I'm not knocking your choice. It's just not my cup of tea. But the very idea that they're "rethinking how they positioned" the books just doesn't sit right with me. Reminds me of C.M.O.T. Dibbler trying to sell me the same possibly-meat pie by turning it the other way round on the tray.

 

[Matthan]

You've got some interesting marketing strategies there, I'll admit. The problem? One reason I don't want to buy the "Wizards Presents" books is that the very idea of selling previews is a marketing gimmick. I don't buy movie trailers or video game demos and I wouldn't buy rpg previews either. Even if they throw in a coupon for $0.50 off a six pack of Orcus Mountain Dew.

For those who want to buy them, that's fine. I'm not knocking your choice. It's just not my cup of tea. But the very idea that they're "rethinking how they positioned" the books just doesn't sit right with me. Reminds me of C.M.O.T. Dibbler trying to sell me the same possibly-meat pie by turning it the other way round on the tray.

Well, that's what they're up against. As far as I can tell, the books aren't a preview like you would have expected from Dragon (which people did pay for, it was just incrementally and sandwiched with other stuff). There are no mechanics. But as a design philosophy and behind the scenes book (which is what they seem to be trying to make it sound like), it might have a market. My thoughts are what can WotC do to expand that market and maybe even overcome some of the bitterness of the audience.

So I extend that question to you, what would it take, within reason, for you to be interested in the books?

 

[ivocaliban]

So I extend that question to you, what would it take, within reason, for you to be interested in the books?

I kind of have to think that the cat's out of the bag on this one. It's the premise that gets me. With all of this Digital Initiative at their disposal it seems like a far more apt place to put previews of the upcoming game, but I guess that isn't the point. I never bought Dragon magazine for the advertisements or the previews. I bought it for things I could add to my game the next weekend.

From what I understand these "Wizards Presents" books are going to a) give us a glimpse of what's going to be in the core books next year, and b) include commentary by the game designers explaining the changes and choices made. In the case of a) I'd really just rather wait and have the total package, not a coffee table book that I can read and flip through and never look at again. As for b) it's just not really what I'm interested in. There are plenty of folks who are, however.

For me to be interested in these books they'd have to some kind of lasting game value long after the core books were released. So far they just seem like books I wouldn't mind skimming through in a bookstore and then putting back on the shelf. Not something I'd want to own.

 

[Khairn]

So I extend that question to you, what would it take, within reason, for you to be interested in the books?

Nothing that I can honestly think of. Like ivocaliban, I view these books as little more than glorified previews and trailers, and I certainly have no intention of paying for a trailer of a game I may buy in 7 months.

I recently picked up the Collector's Edition of Oblivion. Within that game is a 2nd dvd entitled "Bonus Material" that includes "The Making of Oblivion". This bonus material details the thought process that went into the creation of the game along with the timeline, it allows the viewer to meet key designers etc etc. As part of the game its an interesting piece with some nice information. But its just bonus material, I would never pay for such a dvd.

Which is the reason why I'd never pay for the "Wizards Presents" books.

 

[Matthan]

I kind of have to think that the cat's out of the bag on this one. It's the premise that gets me. With all of this Digital Initiative at their disposal it seems like a far more apt place to put previews of the upcoming game, but I guess that isn't the point. I never bought Dragon magazine for the advertisements or the previews. I bought it for things I could add to my game the next weekend.

From what I understand these "Wizards Presents" books are going to a) give us a glimpse of what's going to be in the core books next year, and b) include commentary by the game designers explaining the changes and choices made. In the case of a) I'd really just rather wait and have the total package, not a coffee table book that I can read and flip through and never look at again. As for b) it's just not really what I'm interested in. There are plenty of folks who are, however.

For me to be interested in these books they'd have to some kind of lasting game value long after the core books were released. So far they just seem like books I wouldn't mind skimming through in a bookstore and then putting back on the shelf. Not something I'd want to own.

Ok, first, your avatar is seriously creepy. That stare gave me the willies. Since I'm figuring that's what you went for, kudos!

Second, since these aren't the kinds of books you would buy, what about the marketing ideas? Hypothetically (and pathetically bumping my thread) would you see those ideas as enough added value to tip you towards a purchase on a book that you were on the fence about?

 

[Zamkaizer]

Nothing that I can honestly think of. Like ivocaliban, I view these books as little more than glorified previews and trailers, and I certainly have no intention of paying for a trailer of a game I may buy in 7 months.

I recently picked up the Collector's Edition of Oblivion. Within that game is a 2nd dvd entitled "Bonus Material" that includes "The Making of Oblivion". This bonus material details the thought process that went into the creation of the game along with the timeline, it allows the viewer to meet key designers etc etc. As part of the game its an interesting piece with some nice information. But its just bonus material, I would never pay for such a dvd.

Which is the reason why I'd never pay for the "Wizards Presents" books.

I would just like to point out that you indeed are paying extra for the bonus material. It's obviously different from purchasing the it wholly seperately, but still similar.

The "paying for previews" argument is a valid one, though hardly perfect. The most obvious counterpoint is that the "preview" books allegedly contain a dirth of information not found in the core rulebooks. Granted, the bizzaro fluff and commoditized designer commentary present their own issues, but you're not paying for the same information twice. The real issue becomes how much these collections of unrefined flavor, diverted material, and temporal leg-ups is worth, a quantity that doubtlessly varies wildly from person to person.

For what it's worth (not much admittedly), I'm anticipating the preview books. They appeal to the aspect of my imagination interested in the philosophy of things, rather than the execution. They also represent the point at which I'm going to start seriously developing my campaign setting.

 

[ivocaliban]

Ok, first, your avatar is seriously creepy. That stare gave me the willies. Since I'm figuring that's what you went for, kudos!

That's Boris Karloff as Im-ho-tep in The Mummy (1932). One of my favorite films. *heh* Boo!

Second, since these aren't the kinds of books you would buy, what about the marketing ideas? Hypothetically (and pathetically bumping my thread) would you see those ideas as enough added value to tip you towards a purchase on a book that you were on the fence about?

Like I said they are good marketing ideas.

1) The digital key/introductory D&D Insider offer sounds good. It reminds me of all those "free" programs you get when you buy a computer....all of which expire within six months if you don't buy the full-product/subscription. I don't like the concept...but it works.

2) Free exclusive digi-mini! This reminds me of the free pet/special weapon you find with special edition MMORPGs. I don't collect minis (physical, digital or metaphorical), but lots of folks out there do. Why not, I say.

3) Beta-Testing. I suppose that would work, too. I wonder if they'd want a swarm of people coming on, however, on a particular day (release date of the book) or if they'll be ready for that many folks at one time. I guess that's what beta-testing is for, though, right?

If those things were selling points for me (but, sorry, they're not) then I can see the appeal of them. I don't think it would hurt their sales any, that's for sure. As I said earlier, though, all this "special exclusive introductory one-time-only offer" marketing stuff just turns me off.

 

[Maggan]

I have an idea how they can sell oodles and oodles of the books.

First a preamble.

In London, there is a theatre which shows The Mouse Trap, a theatre version of an Agatha Christie book (as far as I understand it). It's been running for 52 years or something like that, and one of the "gimmicks" is that the audience are "sworn" not to reveal the ending to anyone who hasn't seen the play.

So, to know the ending, you have to see the play. In theory, of course, but it's the idea that's important.

So, if WotC could make sure that each and every gamer who buys the books take an oath not to reveal the contents to anyone not buying the books ... it'll be a home run!

Imagine the people now being all cool and laid back, saying "people will blab about it online, so I'll get the dirt anyway".

Now imagine if we who will buy the books decided, "no, we're not saying. We paid for this information, so we're keeping it!".

So those eager for info would then go out and buy the books.

That would be a great thing to witness. Not that it'll happen, of course. But it'd be fun to watch.

As an observation, I was slightly disappointed by the end of The Mouse Trap. I fingered the culprit after 15 minutes, so the surprise ending was not that exciting. It was the gamer blood that helped me!

/M

 

[mach1.9pants]

I will buy them, and any incentives included would be nice, but I'll buy them anyway.
The reason? Same reason I frequent this site, and dozens of others. I am nosey, I want to know and most of all............the cry of the consumer generation:
.......... I want it {well, I want to know it} NOW!