Repositioning the "Wizards Presents:" books

[BASHMAN]

Now imagine if we who will buy the books decided, "no, we're not saying. We paid for this information, so we're keeping it!".

So those eager for info would then go out and buy the books.

The problem is that these books don't have "info". They have pretty pictures and fluffy articles, possibly about some part-time sorceress's third-grade teacher and brownies.

 

[Maggan]

The problem is that these books don't have "info". They have pretty pictures and fluffy articles, possibly about some part-time sorceress's third-grade teacher and brownies.

Ok, if you say so. I'm sure you know a lot more about the books than I do, since I've only read the information available on the WotC site.

/M

 

[Matthan]

Now imagine if we who will buy the books decided, "no, we're not saying. We paid for this information, so we're keeping it!".

So those eager for info would then go out and buy the books.

That would be a great thing to witness. Not that it'll happen, of course. But it'd be fun to watch.

Well, I do think it would be neat if you could somehow get everyone to be quiet about it if for no other reason than to really bug some of the people on the board. I just don't think it would really work. The problem is that the people who are saying they won't buy the books because it's just a preview don't want to read the whole book. They want a half page of bullet points that give them any new information on what will be in the core books. Methodology, anecdotes, art, and anything else in the book are, at this point, worthless to them. So the issue isn't keeping the people who buy it quiet. The issue is keeping the person who goes down to Border's flips through it and jots down some notes and puts it online.

Personally, I don't think there's any way to prevent that and we should just accept it. What that means to me is that the book has to remarket itself to a jaded crowd and prove that there is value beyond that bullet point list. My ideas are things to try and get the audience to give a second look at the books. If Wizards did these (and even if they don't do them now, I hope they do something like them later), they could use them to help spread whatever new information or angle on the books they wanted. A preview page that announced an incentive like this with some new information on the content of the books would get a lot of hits.

 

[Jhaelen]

Like ivocaliban, I view these books as little more than glorified previews and trailers, and I certainly have no intention of paying for a trailer of a game I may buy in 7 months.

I recently picked up the Collector's Edition of Oblivion.

as Zamkaizer already pointed out, you did exactly that: The difference in price between the normal and the collector's edition is the price you paid for the 'trailer of a game'.

The Guild Wars approach is even more similar to what WotC is doing with their 'Wizard's presents' books: Before a new Guild Wars addon hit the shelves, they released a 'Prerelease Package' containing concept art, screenies and some kind of exclusive in-game items for a very low price.

So, I think some kind of added incentive might be nice. I like the idea of a free trial month for the DDI, especially if I get to choose when to start the trial period.
The one thing that isn't quite right, imho, is the price for those books.
At 20$ it's too high for what they represent.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

In London, there is a theatre which shows The Mouse Trap, a theatre version of an Agatha Christie book (as far as I understand it). It's been running for 52 years or something like that, and one of the "gimmicks" is that the audience are "sworn" not to reveal the ending to anyone who hasn't seen the play.

So, to know the ending, you have to see the play. In theory, of course, but it's the idea that's important.

A link which speaks to the effectiveness of this gimmick...

 

[ferratus]

There is a program on CBC radio called the "Age of Persuasion" which deals with behind the scenes explanations of what drives advertisers to make their decisions and what makes for successful marketing. It is hosted by a man who is an advertiser himself, and has a great passion for his craft. Since I'm referencing him, I might as well give a plug to his blog:

http://www.oreillyradio.com/

Anyway, one of his points he made on his program was that there has arisen a non-official contract between consumers and advertisers. Consumers will listen to the ad, but expect a gift in exchange for listening to your pitch of a product. The most offensive forms of advertising (telemarketing, billboards, advertisements in theatre movies) are seen as breaking this contract, while television, radio, and webpage ads pay for the content that the consumer wants.

This I think plays directly into the debate people have about these preview books. To some, the content is worth the pitch that has been made. Some are willing to buy it for the artwork, while some are D&D fanatics enough just to pay just to have some information early. By and large though, I think the reaction has been largely negative, because they don't feel that the product will be worth the cost paid, and the fact that it is supposed to function as an advertisement makes it particularly offensive.

The first poster talked about offering benefits for electronic content, I think he was really trying to restore that contract. Essentially they would be paying for the DDI insider content that they really wanted, and then they would listen to the advertising pitch in its pages. I think this is an awesome idea in a couple of ways. First, it expands the reach of the product to another segment that isn't interested in the artwork, and it encourages the consumers of the product to get involved in another aspect of the electronic medium that you are trying to encourage.

Heck, I would offer a month of free DDI to anyone who purchases any D&D book. Your most avid consumers are likely the ones who are DMing the games and encouraging at least 4-5 others to stay in touch with the hobby. So you bring 4 people to D&D insider to play online on his games. Plus, since many people will want to use DDI to game with friends that they knew in high school and college and had to move away from (that's most of us I think) it might be a way to cut down on a small percentage of piracy. Extra content would function well for that, though you have to keep in mind that content will also be needed to advertise in the first place... to fulfill that unofficial advertising contract.

 

[Cbas_10]

We've had a few threads discussing the merits of the "Wizards Presents" books. The majority of people have dismissed them as being nothing but preview books and not worth the money. Scott Rouse posted a few days ago that they needed to rethink how they had positioned the books due to the negative majority opinion that was being expressed about them. Now, I had a thought in another thread and I think it got lost in the shuffle there so I want to give it a thread of its own and see what people might think.

So the idea is this, if they're trying to reposition the books, maybe they should throw in some odd incentives. Maybe include the digital key that their going to have for 4E, but instead of getting a digital copy (or in addition to) let it be used for a month or two of free D&D Insider once it completely launches. It would be an odd thing to offer free access to something that doesn't release for a few months, but it could push a few of the holdouts over the edge.

I don't think any of these would lift the stigma of "just being a preview". But, maybe in conjunction with reemphasizing the books as designer diaries and philosophies, including these incentives could push the books into a realm of more perceived value at little actual cost to WotC.

I really like the idea of the "previews" being more like coffee table books. There are more of us out there than what's represented on internet message boards. Crunch is crunch. No matter what the game, no matter what the edition....houserules and personal changes are going to happen. The quality of the game will really be shown when it is revealed how easy the game is to add or remove elements desired by individual groups. But, I digress.

Give us new setting information; sample points of light and plot ideas. We can use that later in the game. Give us sample NPCs (yes, there is far more depth to an NPC than crunchy stats) to show how the new races and classes work into the setting, along with plot hooks and adventure ideas. We can use that later in the game. Give us information on some of the newer or changed monsters; adventure ideas, how they should be played, tactical hints, and such. We can use that later in the game.

 

[hopeless]

The Billion pound question

Well, that's what they're up against. As far as I can tell, the books aren't a preview like you would have expected from Dragon (which people did pay for, it was just incrementally and sandwiched with other stuff). There are no mechanics. But as a design philosophy and behind the scenes book (which is what they seem to be trying to make it sound like), it might have a market. My thoughts are what can WotC do to expand that market and maybe even overcome some of the bitterness of the audience.

So I extend that question to you, what would it take, within reason, for you to be interested in the books?

I'd try one word and say relevance but I suspect you'd want details, the problem is these books need to be ABOUT 4e not what I perceive as ego stroking.

I'll wait to see the review thank you, I see no reason to buy something that is only going to put me off 4e even more...

Back when 3e was being released we got some of the information from dragon and dungeon, now I sooner trust this site than take WOTC at their word.

 

[Matthan]

Heck, I would offer a month of free DDI to anyone who purchases any D&D book. Your most avid consumers are likely the ones who are DMing the games and encouraging at least 4-5 others to stay in touch with the hobby. So you bring 4 people to D&D insider to play online on his games. Plus, since many people will want to use DDI to game with friends that they knew in high school and college and had to move away from (that's most of us I think) it might be a way to cut down on a small percentage of piracy. Extra content would function well for that, though you have to keep in mind that content will also be needed to advertise in the first place... to fulfill that unofficial advertising contract.

Well, one of my hopes is that, if something like this isn't already in place, this thread might result in WotC offering intangible bonuses to their books (like a free month of DDI or similar), that would hopefully result in increased sales for them. I honestly wonder whether the ship may have already sailed on the Wizards Presents: books. They may already be at the printer or even in a warehouse. If not though, maybe there is still time to rethink some things and restore the audience's trust.

Your post was wonderfully insightful. I do think that you may have hit the nail on the head. The audience for the book feels taken advantage of. That's intriguing and makes me curious how Wizards will respond over the next month or so.

Give us new setting information; sample points of light and plot ideas. We can use that later in the game. Give us sample NPCs (yes, there is far more depth to an NPC than crunchy stats) to show how the new races and classes work into the setting, along with plot hooks and adventure ideas. We can use that later in the game. Give us information on some of the newer or changed monsters; adventure ideas, how they should be played, tactical hints, and such. We can use that later in the game.

I think it is fair to share that, at the moment, I'm not planning on buying the Wizard's Presents: books (though I would if they were offering a beta invite, but I'm bribeable that way). I am curious about them and will most likely pick them up down the line if the reviews are favorable and when the price drops a bit.

All that said, if the books were more aimed at what you're talking about. That is, to my understanding, presenting a how to guide to building a 4E campaign utilizing the new ideas being presented (without telling us any crunch), I would jump on it. A book that tells you how to (or gives various ideas how to) structure the world to make the most of the options being presented on a broad scale. And a book that gives you a closer scale, on how to set up an adventuring area that provides for the different classes and races along with ideas for various adventures springing out of the details that they're sharing. That would excite me. If that was included along with designer's notes about where they were coming from and the process to get there, I would part with my cash for them.

There was a recent article up on DDI that had one of the designer's sharing how he's building his campaign for 4E by just reading through the races chapter. I would be interested in enough information to start doing that.

All that said, I agree with you, but is it wrong of me to want that book along with a free month of DDI or a beta invite? Or am I now not only dreaming, but delusional as well.

I'd try one word and say relevance but I suspect you'd want details, the problem is these books need to be ABOUT 4e not what I perceive as ego stroking.

I think that's fair. Would you consider what Cbas_10 was posting about to be relevant enough for this kind of product?

 

[Driddle]

So I extend that question to you, what would it take, within reason, for you to be interested in the books?

My gut feeling is that the books hold very little value as a marketing preview gimmick. The price point is ridiculously high -- I hand over $20 retail to convince myself to buy another product later? Yeesh.

The only way I might consider picking up that product is if its effective cost were nearly halved, by the inclusion of another valuable product in a package deal. I'm not sure what that might be, but I can say it's not going to be a "collectable" miniature figure or a scrawny pile of pdf pages captured online. Maybe legitimate access to skeleton game rules (which is to say, a smidgeon of real "crunch" and zero "fluff," although I despise those two terms). Maybe.

But to pay money for a blatant marketing ploy? Baaaah.