Repositioning the "Wizards Presents:" books

[Nifft]

Make them art books.

People will buy gorgeous art books in spite of whatever crap is written around the pretty pictures. So use the fact that you can out-art-budget everyone else combined and make something people actually want to spend money on.

And then put your crappy corporate marketing copy around the pretty pictures.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Matthan]

When you watch a movie at the cinema, you are essentially paying to see a two hour long advertisement for the films DVD release, as that's market in which studios earn most of their profits. And the theater itself? Their revenue comes from concessions, not tickets.

Thing is, just because something is an advertisment, which most media is or is designed around, it doesn't mean it lacks merit in it's own right.

That's not entirely fair though, is it? When I go to a theater, I pay money to see a movie and I get to see the movie. Now, I know that the theater has sold ads that go on before the movie (at least where I live, local businesses advertise at theaters) and has concessions. I also know the studios have sold ads before the movie as well. But, I don't begrudge them those, because my intention is to see the movie and I get to do that.

The issue that people are having with these books is that they don't see them as a "movie" in and of themselves. They see them as only ads. I don't think that's accurate, but that's the perception that Wizards has to overcome. What are you thoughts on overcoming that?

 

[The Little Raven]

Uh, no. The advertisers pay the publishers to include their ads. Thus, the advertisers are subsidizing the magazines or newspapers. If those ads were not there, you'd have to pay far more to get the actual content you're interested in.

Not true. I subscribe to several magazines that have zero advertisements. These magazines have a far smaller customer base (and thus print-run) than common magazines like Cosmopolitan and Maxim, yet there is no vast price difference. My magazines cost the company more money to print and distribute than an equivalent number of issues of Maxim, but I only pay a few cents more and get far more content. The difference is that my magazines don't generate as much profit, which is why advertisements are in there. I've steadily seen the page count devoted to advertisements increase in magazines, year after year, but there's been no indication of that "subsidizing" lowering the price in any regard for customers.

 

[ivocaliban]

When you watch a movie at the cinema, you are essentially paying to see a two hour long advertisement for the films DVD release, as that's market in which studios earn most of their profits.

That doesn't wash with me. It may be factual on the business end, but if I go to see a movie it's because I want to see the movie. It's not because I want to see the exclusive making-of bonus disc they throw in with the special edition dvd release. These preview books are like paying for the making-of bonus disc by itself before the movie even hits the theaters. I'd rather see the finished product and then, possibly, if I'm truly amazed at what they've done, I might want to see how they did it. But I'm still not likely to pay for it as a stand-alone product based on its own merit.

 

[The Little Raven]

What are you thoughts on overcoming that?

With how stubborn an anti-whatever person is, it's nigh unto impossible. Look at these forums, and how people keep complaining about having to wait until PHB2 for gnomes, despite it being made abundantly clear that they will be present, and playable, in the MM1. However, people keep spreading the misinformation because they're not really concerned with the truth. They're more concerned with spreading a negative image to bring more people to their line of reasoning.

From the ad copy, and statements by Scott and others, it's abundantly clear that these books are collections of essays and conceptual designs, both written and art, that will show you the evolution of the design of 4th edition, with regards to the specific topics: classes & races; worlds & monsters.

The only way you can interpret the following description as "a book of ads" is willfully ignoring what the book really is:

A behind-the-scenes exploration of the Dungeons & Dragons(R) game.

This lavishly illustrated book gives roleplaying game fans a unique, behind-the-curtain glimpse into the making of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. The book contains essays and asides from the game's premier designers, developers, and editors. Through words and illustrations, it explores some of the D&D game's most iconic races and classes, sharing insights never before revealed in any previous game product.

 

[Matthan]

Not true. I subscribe to several magazines that have zero advertisements. These magazines have a far smaller customer base (and thus print-run) than common magazines like Cosmopolitan and Maxim, yet there is no vast price difference. My magazines cost the company more money to print and distribute than an equivalent number of issues of Maxim, but I only pay a few cents more and get far more content. The difference is that my magazines don't generate as much profit, which is why advertisements are in there. I've steadily seen the page count devoted to advertisements increase in magazines, year after year, but there's been no indication of that "subsidizing" lowering the price in any regard for customers.

Well, there's a few things to look into for that. One would be paper quality. Another would be staff size. Still another would be distribution and its myriad of pitfalls. I'm not doubting your magazines, but everything I've read on magazine or any periodical publishing says ads subsidize the magazine. Now, I could have been sucked into a massive conspiracy to hide the ugly truth behind publishing, but I doubt it.

All of that though, doesn't deal with the issue. The audience is having an adverse reaction to the perceived content of these books, how do you address that? That's what I'm interested in, at least. We have several other threads where we can argue advertising.

 

[Matthan]

With how stubborn an anti-whatever person is, it's nigh unto impossible. Look at these forums, and how people keep complaining about having to wait until PHB2 for gnomes, despite it being made abundantly clear that they will be present, and playable, in the MM1. However, people keep spreading the misinformation because they're not really concerned with the truth. They're more concerned with spreading a negative image to bring more people to their line of reasoning.

From the ad copy, and statements by Scott and others, it's abundantly clear that these books are collections of essays and conceptual designs, both written and art, that will show you the evolution of the design of 4th edition, with regards to the specific topics: classes & races; worlds & monsters.

The only way you can interpret the following description as "a book of ads" is willfully ignoring what the book really is:

I think what killed it was calling it a preview of 4E. If it was just that ad copy, there wouldn't be this tempest in a teapot over it. People are kneejerking over that one word.

 

[Maggan]

Now, I could have been sucked into a massive conspiracy to hide the ugly truth behind publishing, but I doubt it.

You haven't. Any magazine that wants to compete on the newsstand has to be subsidised by ads to survive. Which is what most people think of when talking about magazines and ads.

Now, there are magazines which don't compete on the newsstands, that can be published without ads. The circulation of these are often very small, the presentation quality lower than that of newsstand magazines, or are "sponsored" by a larger entity, thus avoiding the need for ads, but in reality being another sort of ad in itself.

Mourn's magazines might fall into these categories, but there might also be other types of magazines. I'd be very interested in hearing a bit more about them myself.

/M

 

[The Little Raven]

I think what killed it was calling it a preview of 4E. If it was just that ad copy, there wouldn't be this tempest in a teapot over it. People are kneejerking over that one word.

But it is still a preview. It gives you some insight into what they are planning and the direction they are taking, and by doing so they are showing you what makes 4th Edition different from previous editions. Thus, in that sense, it's a preview.

The problem, I believe, stems from what people believe is implicit in calling something a preview. Some think that a preview is only considered such when it provides hard details on particulars in the product, such as game mechanics. Others believe that a preview is anything that reveals information about said product, whether in the form of development diaries/essays or hard details.

Another part of the problem is that we got the names of the book, with no details. So, the initial discussion was one composed of no real information, and tons of opinions and speculation. That opinion and speculation was fed more and more until some people take it as the truth, despite the real facts being out there.

As for how to successful change the view of an audience that has gotten a faulty picture of the product and it's intended purpose? I dunno... that's why I never went into marketing.

 

[JoeGKushner]

D&D rulebooks are a clever marketing ploy designed to interest you in purchasing other D&D rulebooks. YOU. FREAKING. SHEEP. HOW DOES THE MAN'S GRASS TASTE NOW?

The sheep are pissed man!