"Requiem for a God" in Eberron - who bites it?

Rechan said:
Not only that, but it would empower Vol - part of her vengeance is getting the Undying Court back for destroying her House.

Wow. I'd not really thought about the full ramifications of the history between Vol and the Undying Court before. They hunted and destroyed her family--not just her parents and siblings, but grandparents, aunts and uncles, third cousins twice removed. Everybody.

And the reason? Because they were collectively responsible for creating her. She's an abomination, and in consequence, anybody in any way responsible for or complicit in her conception has to die.

Man, no wonder she's messed up. Her therapist must be a wealthy man. :p
 

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Rechan said:
"They gain spellcasting power through faith" is one theory.

There's nothing that says that the Mockery or the Traveler is not granting spells to the worshipers of the Lord of Blades. Because there's nothing that says where Divine magic comes from.

The source of divine magic is intentionally ambiguous.

True, although the latest supplement Dragons of Eberron comes down pretty clearly on the faith side.. Here's a quote:

"Even though Tiamat isn't a true goddess, clerics who worship the Daughter of Khyber do receive spells, just as warforged devoted to the Lords of Blades do. Tiamat herself does not grant this power, but faith and devotion to her dark ideals empowers the dedicated cleric."

I'll admit to a strong personal preference for clerical magic originating from faith, not piped in from the god.

Of course, even if you're going to go for intentionally ambiguous in Eberron, the use of Requiem for a God would definitely break the ambiguity if the god was slain and his clerics lost all their spellcasting power.
 
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Rechan said:
I assume the Pcs aren't the murderers. So, "Where they are" doesn't really matter. WHO killed the God may not really impact the reprecussions unless someone snatches the portfolio.

Oh, I didn't know that. Not having the module I assumed it was something like, "we're PCs, ergo if it exists in the game, we get to kill it."

Christian said:
Wow. I'd not really thought about the full ramifications of the history between Vol and the Undying Court before. They hunted and destroyed her family--not just her parents and siblings, but grandparents, aunts and uncles, third cousins twice removed. Everybody.

And the reason? Because they were collectively responsible for creating her. She's an abomination, and in consequence, anybody in any way responsible for or complicit in her conception has to die.

I'm moderately sympathetic to Lady Vol's plight. Erandis herself probably didn't deserve what happened to her (I see her as being a teenager at best before she got turned into a lich to save her life (ironic as that is, saving her life by killing her)).

The question that we have no answer for however is a curious one: did the House of Vol breed Erandis to end the Dragon/Elf wars... or did the House of Vol breed Erandis to end the Dragon/Elf wars and to selfishly gain control over an unknown kind of power?

Interesting question I think. Her family could have had the best interests of both races at heart and was destroyed for desiring peace above all... or her family could have been selfish greedy and power hungry, and attempted to elevate themselves to levels of power dangerous to behold.

Or it could be a little from column A and a little from Column B.

Either way makes Eberron a rich and multi-faceted world.
 

Christian said:
Wow. I'd not really thought about the full ramifications of the history between Vol and the Undying Court before. They hunted and destroyed her family--not just her parents and siblings, but grandparents, aunts and uncles, third cousins twice removed. Everybody.

And the reason? Because they were collectively responsible for creating her. She's an abomination, and in consequence, anybody in any way responsible for or complicit in her conception has to die.

Man, no wonder she's messed up. Her therapist must be a wealthy man. :p
Well at the time, there was a civil war brewing in Aerenal. The Undying Court vs. The House of Vol, as to who would have control over Aerenal. Time of real tension and turmoil among the elves. This was (I believe) during the War with the Dragons.

Along comes Erandis, whose mom thought would breach peace between the Elves and Dragons (or thought she'd bring power, I don't remember). But either way, the existence of Vol shocked and appalled both the Dragons and the Elves, and the Undying Court used Erandis's existence as a propaganda tool to turn Aerenal against House Vol. And wiped out every last member.

So yes, Erandis has a score to settle. Her goals seem to pretty much be "Get my House/Mark back" and "Get the world back for destroying my House and making my life suck".
 
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FourthBear said:
I'll admit to a strong personal preference for clerical magic originating from faith, not piped in from the god.
True, but there are still other options.

One that's been suggested is that Divine magic taps into sources of divine power. An example would be... First, when divine spellcasters prepare their spells, they aren't "granted" specific spells, but they do exactly what mages do (prepare them, do the necessary rituals to have that magic 'primed' so they can complete it later), rather than them GIVEN cure light wounds as opposed to GIVEN bless. Their prepared spells are, in effect, 90% ready, they just need to go the final 10%. Then, the source of ENERGY that POWERS that 10% is not the God's, but a Source of power.

For example: The Qalabrin created a Soul Cloth; a great artifact that they bound the souls of hundreds of thousands of their victims, sealing their essence and souls inside this epic artifact. Whenever Evil priests (Or at least, whenever priests of the Blood fo Vol) pray, the chanting and sequence of their prayers are rituals that summon/tap into the Soul Cloth. The Blood of Vol priests don't know this. But their traditions of "say these words as you pray for your spells" is the litany ritual which channels the ancient, evil power bound inside the Soul Cloth.

Likewise, Eberron may not be a Conscious entity Granting Spells to the Druid right over There who is Specifically Asking for Control Water, but that druid over there, when he casts Control Water, is tapping into the very power of Eberron, and the power of Eberron fuels his magic. It's not "granted" by someone, but he's basically hooking his Jumper Cables to the Earth's Battery and then directing the magic out the way he wants it. He just doesn't know that's what he's doing.

I personally prefer the "Faith=Power", but I just don't think that is the Only option. :)

Of course, even if you're going to go for intentionally ambiguous in Eberron, the use of Requiem for a God would definitely break the ambiguity if the god was slain and his clerics lost all their spellcasting power.
Well yeah. But if you're using Requiem for a God and you apply it to A God, then you've all ready broken the ambiguity of the existence of the Gods, after all.

I mean, if you just put a bullet in the head of the Silver Flame or the Undying Court, I'm pretty sure you've diverted from Canon, so I'm totally not afraid to talk in theories and options. :)
 
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My first choice would be the Silver Flame, it's a verifiable god-like entity and it's THERE so it could be killed. Plus doing so would wreck the entire kingdom and cause untold damage on both physical, spiritual, and political levels within the setting.

But having Vol actually achieve her long pursued vengeance against the Undying Court would be very cool as well. And it would do the same sort of thing to an entire civilization that the Silver Flames demise would do to Thrane. Plus the back-story always felt like the kind of act that deserved massive retribution of the most epic kind.
 

For those who aren't familiar with the book, it is worth noting that Requiem for a God isn't an adventure or module, it's a sourcebook for running a campaign that features the death of a god as an event, just as Forge of War is a sourcebook for running a campaign that involves Eberron's Last War. This doesn't necessarily need to contradict anything about Eberron either. Requiem for a God is very flexible about the effects that a dead god can have on the world and it's worshippers, and offers plenty of options of how to handle the issue.

Let's take the Silver Flame as an example. Let's say that the flames start going out one by one, and begin releasing various evils, and that this is a slow process taking months or years. Now, the thing that I would emphasize in this case is the nature of an individual's faith. At the risk of referencing real-world philosophical concepts, there is a difference in some faiths between worshipping a deity and the concepts they represent, and worshiping an idol, or symbol. In the case of the Silver Flame, where you have a physical manifestation of divine might that anyone can go and see for themselves, I think that there is plenty of room within the church for both types of believers, those who believe in the ideals that the Silver Flame represents philosophically, and those who place their faith in the physical reality of the flame and the power it grants.

If a cleric believes he gets his power from the flame as a physical entity, and the flame goes out, then he no longer has an object or focus for his faith. Without the flame, there is no point, his personal faith is shaken, and he loses his ability to channel divine power. Only by regaining his faith, either transferring it to the eternal ideals of the flame, or switching to another idol or a different religion entirely can he get over his mental block and regain both his faith and his powers.

Other clerics, who believe entirely in the philosophical notions that the flame represents, might see the destruction of the flame as irrelevant to their belief. Even if the last flame gutters and dies, and the world is overrun with demons, they still believe in what the flame represented (Living according to a code of Law and Goodness, and self-sacrifice to defend others) and therefore, they retain their powers even in the face of the "death" of the idol.

A third option exists as well, which is that if you don't know the flame is out, you have no reason for your faith to be shaken. Unless there's some sort of universal "Goodbye cruel world!" message sent out to all the worshipers at the instant the flame goes out, then it is entirely possible for worshipers of a god to not even know what has happened. Of course, as soon as they find out that the flame has gone out, it could still create the crisis of faith as described in the first example. If this is the case, then it may be in the best interests of the officials within the religion to keep the death of the flame secret. If individual faith powers clerical spellcasting, then what the lower ranking clerics don't know can't hurt them, right?

With this in mind, it is entirely possible that as the flame dies, some archbishop or whatever loses his powers and is devoured by a demon and the church is razed by high level monsters, while in other temples, "True Believers" manage to retain their powers and fight back against the forces of darkness. In my opinion, since Eberron is a world with very few high level characters, it doesn't seem that the fiends held in check by the silver flames are unbeatable epic creatures. I mean, Coatls and Rakshasas aren't exactly the epic powerhouses of D&D, and there's only so much you can do with HD advancement and class levels. It seems likely to me that the prophecies of doom and the difficulties faced in the Age of Demons result more from the lack of high level clerics, prestige classes, spells, and feats which have since been developed to combat demons. There's only so much a bog-standard MM1 dragon can do against a Rakshasa with all their immunities to magic, and Great Wyrms should be considerably rarer in an earlier time period. At the risk of sounding like the tagline for Cthulhu Tech, the prophecies of doom were written when they had sticks and stones, now we have nuclear weapons and railguns.

The Death of the Silver Flame could also embolden Thrane's old enemies, if they find out about it. During the Last War, Aundair in particular suffered from the excesses of the Thranish Inquisition, justifying atrocities in the name of divine right. With the nation reeling, and their faith shaken, it is the perfect time for Aundair to launch an assault. Even if Aundair's leaders are aware of the escaping demonic forces, they might trust in the powers of their wizards to contain the demons once the nation has been secured. Of course, once the truce is broken and Aundair invades Thrane, then it is only a matter of time before Breland and Karnath are drawn in to a next war.

Granted, this all seems very apocalyptic, but it is entirely possible for a group of resourceful PCs to sort it all out by battling demonic forces, finding ancient artifacts (perhaps even the blood and flesh of a god's avatar slain in the prehistory of the world) that might bolster the remaining flames or capture the unleashed demons, and engaging in political intrigues to prevent other nations from acting on Thrane's relative weakness during this period. The PCs might even be able to solve this problem by enacting some epic ritual. Perhaps a group of high level True Believers in the Flame can rekindle it's power by sacrificing themselves to fuel it, just as the coatls did before? While the clerics perform the ritual of sacrifice, the PCs might have to guard them against a horde of demon servants bent on ensuring that the ancient masters are freed. Or perhaps the PCs might make this sacrifice themselves, giving their lives to ensure the safety of Eberron. The opportunities for epic heroism are there, as well as the threat of apocalyptic doom.

Robert "Obviously, I vote for the Silver Flame, but the Undying Court is my second choice" Ranting
 

What about the Becoming God? The Warforged find/create something to believe in, and then it's shattered. A bunch of them already carry around pieces anyway.

And if you're feeling really sadistic, can have them finally complete the creation of this god before sundering it..

Really, it's kind of a minor "diety" but it won't destabilize any major region that isn't already pretty toasted.
 


I really like the idea of the flames dying, especially because some kind of physical thing already happened to it before - (the demons that are bound within it.)

An interesting idea - before the flame dies, the fire gets hotter and bigger, consuming vast areas of Thrane, possibly killing everything indiscriminately, or just the evil ones. And then, it dies out.

I don't remember her name (my Eberron history and setting knowledge isn't strong), but there was a high level Cleric that was only powerful when it was near the flame. Maybe she is responsible for the flame dying (hoping to transfer the power to herself, maybe in agreement with the Silver Flames wishes), or she tries to rescue the flame by absorbing her remains in herself. Either way, this would lead to a great struggle within the Church of the Silver Flame - is she worthy of the power? Is she a new god to worship? Does it even matter?

Ah... So many possibilities...
 

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