blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
Interesting. What would be the consequence of popping a cap in a rajah?Whizbang Dustyboots said:
"Requiem for a God" in Eberron - who bites it?
- Thread starter blargney the second
- Start date
Why? Because I never really liked them.blargney the second said:
It would also sunder Aerenal's very culture. They are built around worshiping their unliving ancestors, and with them all, well, dead, that would put a little kink in the plan. Sure, they could operate like the Valenar, who try to venerate their ancestors by action, but a lot of the society itself would deflate.
Not only that, but it would empower Vol - part of her vengeance is getting the Undying Court back for destroying her House.
It would also be interesting to just see the power vacuum. Aside from, say, the Dragons, there's nothing that would really swoop in to take the Court's place.
FourthBear
First Post
It's a pretty tough question. As many have noted, Eberron gods really aren't the kind that can be killed off. And there's no real sign that clerics get their spells from them, so that's kind of out as well. If you *did* kill off one of the Host and the clerics did lose their spells, that would pretty much confirm their objective existence, albeit negatively. Killing off a Rajah or daeklyr might have ramifications to the various evil cults in Eberron, but it's hard to see why the reaction from everyone else wouldn't be "Hooray! Let's kill off another one!"
How's about destroying one of Eberron's planes of conjunction? It would be pretty devastating, could be felt by mystics and such throughout Eberron. Instead of seeking out former places of worship of the dead god, you would seek out former manifest zones and inhabitants of the plane....
How's about destroying one of Eberron's planes of conjunction? It would be pretty devastating, could be felt by mystics and such throughout Eberron. Instead of seeking out former places of worship of the dead god, you would seek out former manifest zones and inhabitants of the plane....
As it stands, not much. The Rajah are all bound, in the equivalent of a magical coma. If you killed one, it would probably pucker the sphincter of every Rakshasa, because now they realize that their masters, and thus they, are not immortal. And all of their enemies will realize this.blargney the second said:
However.
The article on the Lords of Dust (Dragon 337) implied several things. 1) Killing a Rakshasa is a lot like killing an Elemental. The elemental dies, but the energy stays the same - so a new elemental, with roughly the same memories, respawns x time later. 2) The Rajahs that were statted up were a lot like Demon Princes or Archdevils; they had their niche. You had the Rajah of undeath, the Rajah of secret knowledge and corruption, the Rajah of betrayal, the Rajah of war and savagry.
So how would I handle this? Imagine the Rajah as a glacier. All that water, frozen, hidden away. It's not in the water cycle. But if you uncover it, break it up, let it melt, it suddenly enters the ocean, the atmosphere. There's "more water" out there free.
Meaning, that all that untapped, raw Power that the Rajah have is dormant, contained in their prison. Kill one, and it's now loose, and finds new hosts. It infests, empowers, infuses one hundred hosts, who now have power that has not been seen for milenia. Even if it's a Fraction of what the Rajah had, it's nasty. Or a baby Rajah might respawn. It's not got the skill, finesse or experience of the Rajah it once was, but it has potential.
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
Now *that* is cool. Nice!Rechan said:
Loincloth of Armour
First Post
Yes, killing gods in Eberron is a bit more difficult than in most other settings:
1) The Sovereign Host or the Dark Six: Where do you go to kill them? How do you find them? Do they even exist? And if they do, who has their home address? How do you kill an idea, or the faith for thousands of people who simply believe in the concept of The Fury, but she doesn't stop by for tea?
It's an epic quest (or a huge plot point) to simply find the Hosts/Six.
2) The Silver Flame: The question is are you killing the Silver Flame in its entirety or just the symbol in Flamekeep?
If you douse Tira's Pyre, then yes, you destablize Thrane and get all the fun stuff in having a large number of people question their faith. Maybe the loss of the symbol is enough to make the Flame too pure for mortals again, like it supposedly was before Tira's sacrifice.
On the other hand if you 'kill' the Silver Flame in its entirety, then you've got a whole lot of problems. The Flame is the only thing keeping a sizable number of CR 30+ native outsiders from running wild on Eberron. If they get free it's a pretty safe bet that an army of dragons will soon arrive to replay the battles from the Age of Demons.
That's not a 'points of light' setting; that's a 'someone doused the whole world with gasoline and lit a match' setting.
3) The Blood of Vol: As most people don't know Vol exists, and she's not really a goddess anyway, I'm not sure what killing her would accomplish according to the module.
4) Undying Court: Would require you to slice and dice a significant number of Deathless as it is really just the collective will of the Deathless that acts as a single unified being with enough power to be considered a god.
Wrecking the Court would totally decimate the elven culture, so if you're looking for fall-out without totally destroying the world setting, this one is probably the best to work with.
5) The Dragon gods (Bahamut, etc): See Sovereign Host for the problems.
6) The Progenitor Dragons (Khyber, Eberron, Siberys): Pretty hard to accomplish, considering Siberys is already dead, and if you kill Eberron where are you going to store your stuff?
If pressed into some kind of story involving deity-cide, I'd use a Solar in Syrania and have it proclaim itself a 'herald of god XXXXXX' while giving it demi-deity status thanks to its faith. So taking it out would be a serious blow to the faithful, without getting into actually meeting with the god.
1) The Sovereign Host or the Dark Six: Where do you go to kill them? How do you find them? Do they even exist? And if they do, who has their home address? How do you kill an idea, or the faith for thousands of people who simply believe in the concept of The Fury, but she doesn't stop by for tea?
It's an epic quest (or a huge plot point) to simply find the Hosts/Six.
2) The Silver Flame: The question is are you killing the Silver Flame in its entirety or just the symbol in Flamekeep?
If you douse Tira's Pyre, then yes, you destablize Thrane and get all the fun stuff in having a large number of people question their faith. Maybe the loss of the symbol is enough to make the Flame too pure for mortals again, like it supposedly was before Tira's sacrifice.
On the other hand if you 'kill' the Silver Flame in its entirety, then you've got a whole lot of problems. The Flame is the only thing keeping a sizable number of CR 30+ native outsiders from running wild on Eberron. If they get free it's a pretty safe bet that an army of dragons will soon arrive to replay the battles from the Age of Demons.
That's not a 'points of light' setting; that's a 'someone doused the whole world with gasoline and lit a match' setting.
3) The Blood of Vol: As most people don't know Vol exists, and she's not really a goddess anyway, I'm not sure what killing her would accomplish according to the module.
4) Undying Court: Would require you to slice and dice a significant number of Deathless as it is really just the collective will of the Deathless that acts as a single unified being with enough power to be considered a god.
Wrecking the Court would totally decimate the elven culture, so if you're looking for fall-out without totally destroying the world setting, this one is probably the best to work with.
5) The Dragon gods (Bahamut, etc): See Sovereign Host for the problems.
6) The Progenitor Dragons (Khyber, Eberron, Siberys): Pretty hard to accomplish, considering Siberys is already dead, and if you kill Eberron where are you going to store your stuff?
If pressed into some kind of story involving deity-cide, I'd use a Solar in Syrania and have it proclaim itself a 'herald of god XXXXXX' while giving it demi-deity status thanks to its faith. So taking it out would be a serious blow to the faithful, without getting into actually meeting with the god.
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
Good points, Loincloth. Here's a bit of fuel for the noggin fires: it's not a deity in the traditional sense, but Cyre is most certainly dead.
Several points.
I assume the Pcs aren't the murderers. So, "Where they are" doesn't really matter. WHO killed the God may not really impact the reprecussions unless someone snatches the portfolio.
IF the Gods exist, then they're probably supplying the magic to their worshipers. It would be rather odd if the Gods exist, but aren't responsible for their priests getting magic.
As to "How do you kill a concept", simple: change it. How do you change The Fury? Make her obsolete - kill passion, kill emotion and anger. The Quori are doing it by making everyone dull and stifled. Or do something to the Fury so that her current form - unbridled and disastrous - is no more. Alter her, so that she only inspires love, creativity, without the "Dark" side. Thus the dangerous part of the Fury "dies", and you get your dead god - the part that used to be the Fury "dies", taking the dark baggage with it.
An example of "Change = killing" is Cyre. The national identity, the belief and culture and essence of Cyre, is dead. The Mournland killed it. The body is there, and some of the people are there, but the meaning is so tarnished it's gone.
IF you kill a god and its worshipers just keep on trucking, their divine magic unaffected... what's the point?
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FourthBear
First Post
I would just note that clerics in Eberron definitely do not have their spellcasting granted directly from their deity. It's been mentioned several times in Eberron books (such as Dragons of Eberron most recently) that there are clerics of the Lord of Blades who cast just fine, no matter his personal power. They gain spellcasting power from faith, not an outside agency.
I suppose you could declare that clerics of Sovereign Host would have their powers stripped from them upon the death of their deity, but it seems a bit unfair. Expect your PCs to rush towards faiths not involving vulnerable gods. If this rule is changed, I would definitely give the PCs a big heads up prior to starting the campaign.
I suppose you could declare that clerics of Sovereign Host would have their powers stripped from them upon the death of their deity, but it seems a bit unfair. Expect your PCs to rush towards faiths not involving vulnerable gods. If this rule is changed, I would definitely give the PCs a big heads up prior to starting the campaign.
"They gain spellcasting power through faith" is one theory.FourthBear said:
There's nothing that says that the Mockery or the Traveler is not granting spells to the worshipers of the Lord of Blades. Because there's nothing that says where Divine magic comes from.
The source of divine magic is intentionally ambiguous.
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