"Requiem for a God" in Eberron - who bites it?

[Rechan]

I don't remember her name (my Eberron history and setting knowledge isn't strong), but there was a high level Cleric that was only powerful when it was near the flame. Maybe she is responsible for the flame dying (hoping to transfer the power to herself, maybe in agreement with the Silver Flames wishes), or she tries to rescue the flame by absorbing her remains in herself. Either way, this would lead to a great struggle within the Church of the Silver Flame - is she worthy of the power? Is she a new god to worship? Does it even matter?

Her name is Jaela. She's the equivalent of the Pope. She is in full charge of the Church. But being 11, she's advised by the cardinals, IIRC.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

In my opinion, since Eberron is a world with very few high level characters, it doesn't seem that the fiends held in check by the silver flames are unbeatable epic creatures. I mean, Coatls and Rakshasas aren't exactly the epic powerhouses of D&D, and there's only so much you can do with HD advancement and class levels.

There's an article in a Dragon magazine (can't recall which one) that explains it better than I could, but as it goes...

The fiends held in check by the Silver Flame are nearly unbeatable epic powerhouses. Arch-Devil/Demon Prince kind of power for some of them. They're called the Rakshasa Overlords not because they're advanced Rakshasa, but because they lord over Rakshasas and other fiends.

The Rajahs are not simply Rakshasas advanced through HD and level ups, they are unique beings with powers enough to be on par with Cthuhlu type bad guys and toss around demi-god level effects.

They are so unstoppable and so powerful that you can't permanently kill them. While lesser immortal fiends will have their personalities reset when you 'kill' them, the Overlords are truly immortal. Reduce them to -10 hp and they dissipate, only to reform a day later with all powers and knowledge intact, and a whole lot angrier. You can only bind them into a dreamless stupor that keeps the strongest of them away from Eberron. That is what the Silver Flame does in the game world, and taking that out means releasing a whole lot of dudes with demi-god level powers and the big E in their alignment write-ups.

And remember, it's not that Eberron is a setting with few high level characters, or that there have never been a large number of high level people. It's a setting with few high level allies. If the Overlords get released, there's no running to Elminster for help. It's up to the PCs to save the world.

If they can.

 

[AnonymousOne]

Now I don't have a lot of knowledge in regards to the Eberron setting but here's an idea.

Incorporate the Devils from the Book of Fiends II.

Say that the evils held in the Flame are more Demons than Devils.

The flame slowly dies out and what we see is a slow leaching of demons into the world. The Church of the Silver Flame does its best to fight and contain this outbreak without revealing that the Flame is dying.

Eventually when the Demons break out, The likes of Asmodeus and some of the other LE Arch-Devils begin to make their presence felt in Eberron because rampaging demons means the end of the world and a loss of souls to power the Arch-Devils.

This puts several very interesting constraints on the setting.

1.) Does the Church of the Silver Flame join the arch-Devils in a quest to destroy the demons? Is the enemy of my enemy my friend? Can they put aside their radical differences to fight a greater threat?

2.) Are the Dragons ready to ally with Devils? If not do they take a hands off approach and then wait until both sides are weakened to come in and clean house?

3.) If the PCs are privy to any of this knowledge, can they work to destroy Demons knowing that it serves the ends of the Arch-Devils?

Added to this is all of the political intrigue that many other people have expanded upon. Will the Silver Flame's death leave to an invasion? If so will the Devils move to protect their ally against the Demons?

Just some food for thought.

 

[blargney the second]

So is the Church of the Silver Flame devoted only to the flame in Flamekeep or all the other flames around Eberron as well? I thought it was all of them, but I'm getting the impression from you guys that it's just the one...

 

[Rechan]

So is the Church of the Silver Flame devoted only to the flame in Flamekeep or all the other flames around Eberron as well? I thought it was all of them, but I'm getting the impression from you guys that it's just the one...

Actually, I didn't know there were multiple flames.

After looking in Faiths of Eberron, this is the jist I got: The Silver Flame has existed, but it was "too holy" for mortals to hear, to touch. The Silver Flame (in Flamekeep) is the Silver Flame in its avatar form - it can speak, be accessed by mortals. This was made so when Tira Monin, the paladin pure of heart, bound herself with the flame to bind the fiend trapped inside. She gave the flame a Voice and a Mortal Soul.

So if the Flame went out, I suspect that mortals once more couldn't tap into the purity of the Silver Flame.

Also, here's an important note: worshipers of the Silver Flame believe their souls go into the Flame itself, rather than Dolurrh. They believe their souls merge with the Flame, and give it a tiny bit more power. So if the Flame just went out, that would be the equivalent of Heaven being destroyed (along with the souls of their dead relatives), and damn them to an afterlife in Dolurrh.

Another distinction to make is that the orcs in the Labyrinth (in the Demon Wastes) worship the same power of the Silver Flame. Now, if you got one of the orcs and a paladin of the CotSF in the same room, they'd likely have a shouting match, and wouldn't consider themselves worshiping the same thing, but ultimately they Are. So perhaps there is and always will be the Flame, but as it stands, if the SF went out, the CotSF would wither and die.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

Actually, I didn't know there were multiple flames.

There are no canon sources that there are any physical manifestations beyond the one in Flamekeep's basement.

So perhaps there is and always will be the Flame, but as it stands, if the SF went out, the CotSF would wither and die.

Very likely. The Silver Flame has existed for 100,000 years, ever since nearly all of the coutal as a race sacrificed themselves to bind the Overlords. Long before humans or any other mortal race was venerating it.

The Church of the Silver Flame is only about 700 years old, and is considered a young, vibrant, expansionist religion. I see a lot of its draw and zeal coming from the fact that in a world with no clear proof of gods you can go to Flamekeep and actually see a font of silver fire and feel the divine power of it.

Take that symbol away and it is very likely that a number of people in the Church will suffer a crisis of faith.

 

[blargney the second]

I thought I read somewhere that the rak Rajahs in Ashtakala were imprisoned in silver flames much like the one in Flamekeep, only a heck of a lot older. The raks that are out in the world were loosely bound in the same flames as their masters, and over time they were able to work their way free.

Now where on earth did I find that info?

 

[Rechan]

I thought I read somewhere that the rak Rajahs in Ashtakala were imprisoned in silver flames much like the one in Flamekeep, only a heck of a lot older. The raks that are out in the world were loosely bound in the same flames as their masters, and over time they were able to work their way free.

I don't think that's the case.

The RAJAHS are all over Khorvaire, bound inside Khyber. They're effectively bound inside a giant Khyber shard, or the equivalent.

 

[Testament]

There's an article in a Dragon magazine (can't recall which one) that explains it better than I could, but as it goes...

The fiends held in check by the Silver Flame are nearly unbeatable epic powerhouses. Arch-Devil/Demon Prince kind of power for some of them. They're called the Rakshasa Overlords not because they're advanced Rakshasa, but because they lord over Rakshasas and other fiends.

The Rajahs are not simply Rakshasas advanced through HD and level ups, they are unique beings with powers enough to be on par with Cthuhlu type bad guys and toss around demi-god level effects.

They are so unstoppable and so powerful that you can't permanently kill them. While lesser immortal fiends will have their personalities reset when you 'kill' them, the Overlords are truly immortal. Reduce them to -10 hp and they dissipate, only to reform a day later with all powers and knowledge intact, and a whole lot angrier. You can only bind them into a dreamless stupor that keeps the strongest of them away from Eberron. That is what the Silver Flame does in the game world, and taking that out means releasing a whole lot of dudes with demi-god level powers and the big E in their alignment write-ups.

And remember, it's not that Eberron is a setting with few high level characters, or that there have never been a large number of high level people. It's a setting with few high level allies. If the Overlords get released, there's no running to Elminster for help. It's up to the PCs to save the world.

If they can.

I am so going to run this scenario now. This is too good to pass up.

 

[blargney the second]

What would happen to Aerenal if the Undying Court kicked the bucket? Aside from Vol being very happy, would it have any significant impact on other parts of the world?