Jeff Wilder
First Post
Comments very welcome. These are changes we're making and playtesting. Reports to follow later.
PERCEPTION
Pathfinder -- Combined Spot, Listen, and Search into Perception. Also added other senses (taste, touch, smell).
Problem -- Perception is just too much for one skill. Who won't max it out if they can?
Change -- Divided Perception into two skills, one active and one passive: "Observe," which is INT-based, and represents actively looking for something, whether it be traps, a weird taste or smell, or a clue at a crime scene; and "Notice," which is WIS-based and covers all of the same things. Observe also includes picking up the tell-tales of a truly valuable item (Appraise), and Notice also includes the ability to get a sense of when someone is trustworthy or evasive (Sense Motive).
In general, Notice DCs will be unchanged from Perception DCs, and Observe DCs will be 5 lower than Perception DCs. To balance that out, Notice is always a free action or even no action at all. Observe, on the other hand, will generally take at least a move action, and using Observe will generally be noticeable by people paying attention to you. Notice cannot be used to detect a trap with a DC higher than 20.
Classes with Observe as a class skill are bard, ranger, rogue, and wizard. Classes with Notice as a class skill are barbarian, druid, ranger, rogue, bard, paladin, and monk. Races with bonuses get them to both skills.
Just one cool example of how this would work in practice: if a rogue with, say, +11 in Notice is moving down a corridor containing a pit trap (DC 20), that rogue would (assuming Take 10) automatically perceive the trap while still 10 feet away. By contrast, to find the same pit with Observe, the rogue would only need a +5, but it takes time and the attempt to find it is noticeable if anybody's paying attention.
APPRAISE
Pathfinder -- Gave better rules and the additional use of identifying magical items.
Problem -- It's a lame-ass skill in a heroic fantasy game.
Change -- Folded Appraise into Observe.
SENSE MOTIVE
Pathfinder -- Pretty much left Sense Motive as is.
Problem -- None, really. It's not a hugely useful skill, unless the DM allows it to be used as a lie detector, and it fits nicely into Notice, where it balances Appraise's place under Observe.
Change -- Folded Sense Motive into Notice.
ACROBATICS, CLIMB, JUMP, and SWIM
Pathfinder -- Combined Jump with Balance and Tumble into Acrobatics. Left Climb and Swim alone.
Problem -- Jump doesn't fit well at all under Acrobatics, because a superb jumper should not always be a superb tumbler. Tumbling is a specialized skill, and Jump is an "everyman" skill. Climb and Swim, on the other hand, just aren't useful enough to stand on their own, and a good athlete is usually pretty good at athletics in general.
Change -- Removed Jump from Acrobatics, and combined Climb, Jump, and Swim into Athletics, which is STR-based.
LINGUISTICS
Pathfinder -- Combined Forgery, Decipher Script, and Speak Language into Linguistics.
Problem -- We don't like the inclusion of Speak Language into the skill, and think it works fine as is. Speak Language is useful enough to be worth 1 or 2 skill points.
Change -- Speak Language works the same as in 3.5. We're also going to allow spoken communication with Linguistics, at +5 to the DCs. As with getting the meaning of a text, this takes one minute per conversational exchange. It can be done at more normal conversational speed if the PC takes a -10 to the Linguistics check. Failing a check by 5 or more is a miscommunication. Finally, you can identify a language, spoken or written. DC is 10, going up with rarity and complexity.
DISABLE DEVICE
Pathfinder -- Combined Open Lock and Disable Device into one DEX-based skill.
Problem -- We don't like the skill being DEX-based. We kinda like the conceptual difference between a cat-burglar and a safe-cracker, though of course nothing stops a rogue from being both!
Change -- Disable Device is INT-based.
SLEIGHT OF HAND and BLUFF
Pathfinder -- Made no significant change to these skills.
Problem -- Sleight of Hand just doesn't see very much use in any non-thief-centric game we've ever played. That, combined with the fact that the described uses for Sleight of Hand are so similar to how feinting and distraction are described under Bluff (distraction is basically a Sleight of Hand of oneself!), it made sense to combine them.
Change -- Folded Sleight of Hand into Bluff.
RIDE and HANDLE ANIMAL
Pathfinder -- Made no change to these skills.
Problem -- The skills aren't useful enough to stand alone. After all, Ride is just a specialized form of Handle Animal.
Change -- Fold Ride into Handle Animal (CHA-based). The only core classes that don't have Handle Animal are bard, cleric, rogue, sorcerer, and wizard.
SPELLCRAFT
Pathfinder -- Folded Concentration into Spellcraft.
Problem -- Spellcraft is INT-based, so this is yet another bone thrown to wizards. On the other hand, Concentration really doesn't cover enough to stand on its own.
Change -- The skill formerly known as Concentration is now a caster level check, modified by spellcasting attribute.
ASSIST BONUSES
Pathfinder -- Pathfinder got rid of synergy bonuses, but still allows Aid Another to assist with skills.
Problem -- Not much. Just want to expand on it a little.
Change -- First, any reasonable skill can be used to assist with another skill use. For example, Knowledge (history) could be used to assist with a Linguistics check to identify an ancient language. Second, you can assist yourself. (In practice, this works out kinda like on-the-fly synergy bonuses.) It might take extra time, but that won't often matter. Third, assist bonuses from the same skill don't stack. Two people can search a room with Observe and get a +2 bonus. A third person just duplicates effort.
PERCEPTION
Pathfinder -- Combined Spot, Listen, and Search into Perception. Also added other senses (taste, touch, smell).
Problem -- Perception is just too much for one skill. Who won't max it out if they can?
Change -- Divided Perception into two skills, one active and one passive: "Observe," which is INT-based, and represents actively looking for something, whether it be traps, a weird taste or smell, or a clue at a crime scene; and "Notice," which is WIS-based and covers all of the same things. Observe also includes picking up the tell-tales of a truly valuable item (Appraise), and Notice also includes the ability to get a sense of when someone is trustworthy or evasive (Sense Motive).
In general, Notice DCs will be unchanged from Perception DCs, and Observe DCs will be 5 lower than Perception DCs. To balance that out, Notice is always a free action or even no action at all. Observe, on the other hand, will generally take at least a move action, and using Observe will generally be noticeable by people paying attention to you. Notice cannot be used to detect a trap with a DC higher than 20.
Classes with Observe as a class skill are bard, ranger, rogue, and wizard. Classes with Notice as a class skill are barbarian, druid, ranger, rogue, bard, paladin, and monk. Races with bonuses get them to both skills.
Just one cool example of how this would work in practice: if a rogue with, say, +11 in Notice is moving down a corridor containing a pit trap (DC 20), that rogue would (assuming Take 10) automatically perceive the trap while still 10 feet away. By contrast, to find the same pit with Observe, the rogue would only need a +5, but it takes time and the attempt to find it is noticeable if anybody's paying attention.
APPRAISE
Pathfinder -- Gave better rules and the additional use of identifying magical items.
Problem -- It's a lame-ass skill in a heroic fantasy game.
Change -- Folded Appraise into Observe.
SENSE MOTIVE
Pathfinder -- Pretty much left Sense Motive as is.
Problem -- None, really. It's not a hugely useful skill, unless the DM allows it to be used as a lie detector, and it fits nicely into Notice, where it balances Appraise's place under Observe.
Change -- Folded Sense Motive into Notice.
ACROBATICS, CLIMB, JUMP, and SWIM
Pathfinder -- Combined Jump with Balance and Tumble into Acrobatics. Left Climb and Swim alone.
Problem -- Jump doesn't fit well at all under Acrobatics, because a superb jumper should not always be a superb tumbler. Tumbling is a specialized skill, and Jump is an "everyman" skill. Climb and Swim, on the other hand, just aren't useful enough to stand on their own, and a good athlete is usually pretty good at athletics in general.
Change -- Removed Jump from Acrobatics, and combined Climb, Jump, and Swim into Athletics, which is STR-based.
LINGUISTICS
Pathfinder -- Combined Forgery, Decipher Script, and Speak Language into Linguistics.
Problem -- We don't like the inclusion of Speak Language into the skill, and think it works fine as is. Speak Language is useful enough to be worth 1 or 2 skill points.
Change -- Speak Language works the same as in 3.5. We're also going to allow spoken communication with Linguistics, at +5 to the DCs. As with getting the meaning of a text, this takes one minute per conversational exchange. It can be done at more normal conversational speed if the PC takes a -10 to the Linguistics check. Failing a check by 5 or more is a miscommunication. Finally, you can identify a language, spoken or written. DC is 10, going up with rarity and complexity.
DISABLE DEVICE
Pathfinder -- Combined Open Lock and Disable Device into one DEX-based skill.
Problem -- We don't like the skill being DEX-based. We kinda like the conceptual difference between a cat-burglar and a safe-cracker, though of course nothing stops a rogue from being both!
Change -- Disable Device is INT-based.
SLEIGHT OF HAND and BLUFF
Pathfinder -- Made no significant change to these skills.
Problem -- Sleight of Hand just doesn't see very much use in any non-thief-centric game we've ever played. That, combined with the fact that the described uses for Sleight of Hand are so similar to how feinting and distraction are described under Bluff (distraction is basically a Sleight of Hand of oneself!), it made sense to combine them.
Change -- Folded Sleight of Hand into Bluff.
RIDE and HANDLE ANIMAL
Pathfinder -- Made no change to these skills.
Problem -- The skills aren't useful enough to stand alone. After all, Ride is just a specialized form of Handle Animal.
Change -- Fold Ride into Handle Animal (CHA-based). The only core classes that don't have Handle Animal are bard, cleric, rogue, sorcerer, and wizard.
SPELLCRAFT
Pathfinder -- Folded Concentration into Spellcraft.
Problem -- Spellcraft is INT-based, so this is yet another bone thrown to wizards. On the other hand, Concentration really doesn't cover enough to stand on its own.
Change -- The skill formerly known as Concentration is now a caster level check, modified by spellcasting attribute.
ASSIST BONUSES
Pathfinder -- Pathfinder got rid of synergy bonuses, but still allows Aid Another to assist with skills.
Problem -- Not much. Just want to expand on it a little.
Change -- First, any reasonable skill can be used to assist with another skill use. For example, Knowledge (history) could be used to assist with a Linguistics check to identify an ancient language. Second, you can assist yourself. (In practice, this works out kinda like on-the-fly synergy bonuses.) It might take extra time, but that won't often matter. Third, assist bonuses from the same skill don't stack. Two people can search a room with Observe and get a +2 bonus. A third person just duplicates effort.
Last edited:
