Reshuffling the Ability Scores' ... Abilities

[Technik4]

I don't know how to make a poll (or I would). Choose 1:


A. Drastic: Switch Reflex to Wisdom. Switch Will and Initiative to Charisma. Allow Rogues to use Dex or Cha for Initiative (2nd level ability).

B. Intuitive: Switch Initiative to Wisdom. Switch Will to Charisma. Allow Rogues to use Dex or Wis for Initiative (2nd level ability).

C. Slight: Switch Will to Charisma.

D. CZombie: Switch Initiative to Charisma.

E. ARandomGod: Switch Reflex to Wisdom. Switch Will to Charisma.

F. I don't like any of these options, but changes do need to be made!

G. Change Nothing! Ability Scores are Perfect!

Technik

 

[Ferret]

These don't make sense. Reflex? You mean the save? You've confused me.

 

[CRGreathouse]

G.

I think that B would make clerics (already a powerful class, generally considered the most powerful class) even better, probably unacceptably so.

Most of the options (A, B, D, and E) strike me as the 'wrong' use for the ability score, and it would be hard to get me to use them in general -- they just feel awkward. I could see Will being modified by either Wisdom or Charisma, though I do prefer Wisdom (and as such chose G over C).

I could see Charisma used more in conjunction with Enchantment effects, in the same way I could see Intelligence used more with illusions, but other than that I'm quite happy with the system as is -- and as I have no good suggestion for using those scores to those ends, I'll leave it as-is.

 

[Staffan]

I think the least intrusive "fix" for Charisma is to (a) use action points (from Eberron or Unearthed Arcana), and (b) modify the number of APs per level with Charisma. So a level 1 character with Cha 7 would have 3 APs, while his Cha 14 buddy would have 7 (the default is 5 + (level/2), rounded down - APs "refill" each level, you can't save them up).

 

[Technik4]

These don't make sense. Reflex? You mean the save? You've confused me.

Sorry, I was posting this from the end of a previous discussion.

Wisdom would be the ability that reflects a bonus to Reflex saves in some of the examples.

Charisma would be the ability that reflects a bonus to Will saves in some of the examples.

Wisdom or Charisma would be the ability that reflects a bonus to Initiative in some of the examples.

I think that B would make clerics (already a powerful class, generally considered the most powerful class) even better, probably unacceptably so.

How so? B proposes to move Initiative from Dexterity to Wisdom (most clerics probably get an Initiative bump) and to move Will saving throws from Wisdom to Charisma (most clerics would probably net lose some Will saving throw bonuses). If anything, its almost a nerf to clerics.

they just feel awkward...

I think this is just because its a drastic change. The case was made that if Wisdom reflects your overall perception towards things, then this 6th sense would be more adept at warning you of an incoming Fireball. Also works if you think of wisdom as your Wits.

Additionally, the case was made that if Charisma is supposed to govern your overall predilection towards things (ie- introvert vs. extrovert) then as a natural extrovert you would act sooner in battle, youre more accustomed to taking charge.

Technik

 

[Hodgie]

The desire to swap ability scores generally stems from the belief that Cha is too weak. A much better approach is to make Cha more important than to switch all manner of things. If Cha is weak, then improving it solves the problem. If Cha is weak, then swapping everything you can think of may produce more problems.

The action point idea seems generally accepted and isn't even close to gamebreaking.

 

[glass]

The desire to swap ability scores generally stems from the belief that Cha is too weak.

Or that Dex is too strong. Especially as a lot of people would like to see attack rolls moved to Dex, which would make it even stronger.


glass.

 

[Thanee]

The only option I would consider (apart from G) is C.

From a logical point of view, I think Charisma is quite fitting for the Will save.

From a balance point of view, this mostly weakens Clerics and Druids, while strengthening primarily Bards, Paladins and Sorcerers. Doesn't sound too bad, really.

Bye
Thanee

 

[glass]

I don't know how to make a poll (or I would).

I do, so I did.

Find it at http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=129030


glass.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I think charisma mod adding to ones action points is a very good solution. And one I intend to implement in my next game.