Resist Energy, Mass - Encounter Problem

[Obergnom]

During my campaign I want to use both a Frost Giants and a Fire Giants Stronghold. I would like to use strong elemental/energy themes, but with Resist Energy, Mass being available to my players, that hardly seems possible.

Not allowing that spell is no longer an option, and at the time I allowed it, I did not see a problem. Usually it just makes a single encounter easier. Which is okay, I thought.

But Imagine a Stronghold full of Fire Giants, Fire Giant Forge Priests and Fire Casters, Hellhounds and maybe a Red Dragon! Okay, I could use Dispel Magic here as well as Hell Fire Spells. That might solve this Problem.

The Frost Giants is what really gives me a problem. I imagine a forgotten Frost Giant Stronghold, the Heroes venture there to recover the Sword of the Jarl, it is not populated by hordes of Giants and Giant casters, just maybe a White Dragon (Whom I do not whant to use as flying sorcerer), a couple of Cold Based Undead and the Jarl. (The Jarl will be some kind of Undead/Cold Creature)... what to do, to make the players "feel" the cold?

Subtracting 20-30 points of damage (they are currently level 9 and will reach 11th before going to either the fire or frost giants) from every attack renders many energy damaging effects useless or pathethic.

As I said above, I want to stick with the theme, not give the Jarl a flamming burst sword, just for the "Gotcha" effect.

 

[frankthedm]

During my campaign I want to use both a Frost Giants and a Fire Giants Stronghold. I would like to use strong elemental/energy themes, but with Resist Energy, Mass being available to my players, that hardly seems possible.

Not allowing that spell is no longer an option, and at the time I allowed it, I did not see a problem. Usually it just makes a single encounter easier. Which is okay, I thought.

Just say the spell worked for a while, but pathways of cosmic energy that the spell worked off of have waned. If anyone actually spent cash to get the spell, see to it a little extra treasure comes their way.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Bear in mind that a party facing those kind of foes is expected to have similar sorts of protection available and work with it.

Don't just use energy damage (which resist cold will help against) - cold has so many more interesting alternatives:

Walls of Ice restrict movement
Sleet Storms reduce visibility and make things slippery
Fog clouds give everyone concealment.

For instance, I once made a young white dragon a terrible foe for over half a dozen PCs (avg 7th level) because they were fighting it in winter; the dragon had used its breath to freeze over the entire cavern floor, so everyone was making balance checks all the time (while the dragon, with its icewalking ability, was free to move as he wished). That plus the concealment from the Fog Cloud which the dragon could ignore with blindsight (before they changed it to blindsense). The party only survived because the relatively inexperienced dragon decided to finish off the last guy standing (a wizard) with a bite... and he had a hot fire shield on.

Plus, there is also the duration of spells to take into account. Unless mass resist energy was bumped up to 'hour per level' for some reason, the adventure could just take so long that the spell duration runs out. And of course, if they are casting this spell, there are other high level spells that are not being cast with those slots.

Cheers

 

[blargney the second]

Resist energy doesn't help if you're covered in water that's then frozen...

 

[Arkhandus]

Dispel Magic, or Greater Dispelling.

Including magic traps of Dispel Magic.

Over pits of lava, icewater, or boiling water. Or just over gaps that a giant would easily stride over, but a smaller intruder would have to jump or fly over.

Unnecessarily cruel, I know, but......I just had to suggest it.

So.....maybe leave out the pits of nasty hot/cold deathtraps. But still use the magic traps that unleash a Dispel Magic when triggered.

Also, giant mages with the spell. Or an allied (with the giants) fire genasi wizard with the spell.

 

[green slime]

There's no problem. Already several ideas have been given.

Dispel Magic, being the most obvious. As well as using the icy realm as traps/funnels/fog.

My suggestion is this:

The idea is to challenge the party. The (Mass) Resist Elements is absorbing punishment they'd otherwise be taking. This is a godd thing (TM). Of course you don't want to disrupt the flavour by adding other elemental damage. The solution therefore is to add more icy creatures. Rehmorraz, enslaved Arctic Dwarves, Ice Elementals, Polar Bears. Eventually, you'll whittle their hp down. You can have them meet more, and not be overly concerned about the party's welfare.

 

[Shayuri]

I was gonna say...the only thing that will really be bad here is Elemental Immunity to cold. Resist Energy (Cold) will be ESSENTIAL if the party is to survive! Speaking as a long time player, and in support of what I've read here, there are many MANY better ways to make me "feel the cold" than to merely (and unfairly IMO) yank away our only protection, then do scads of damage to us. Damage, as they say, is cheap. Concentrate on atmosphere and clever cold-related schemes and tactics.

I'd find it pretty cheesy if I were on a quest to get the sword of Jarl, and Resist Energy and/or Protection from Energy suddenly became "impossible to cast."

 

[werk]

It really shouldn't be a problem as the bad guys should be able to get over the resist a lot more than the PCs would like.

An easy way to tone the resist's effectiveness down would be to say that the area's strongly planar aligned, so all resists are reduced 10 and fire based spells and effects add 10...or whatever you think would be scaled correctly (-15, +5 or -20,+50%). Often, that is the reason the fire-bad-guys chose to live there in the first place, right?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

As others have noted, use non-damaging environmental effects to challenge them.

Cold: Slippery Floors, fog, sleet storm, Thin Ice over running water (a killer with a couple of giants on the other side).

Fire: Molten Lava, poison fumes from said lava, lack of oxygen in some areas.

Also, you could try for the old 'bait & switch' encounter. Have the Frost Giant Jarl (or whatever leader they have) use fireball or a flaming weapon. Reason: Keeps the other frost giants in line, and challenges the party. Lure the party into believing its an all-Ice (or whatever) theme dungeon, then hit 'em with a believable encounter outside the dungeon theme.

 

[Warforged Goblin]

Look at the feat "Energy Substitution". Or heck, have the frost giants use electricity-based attacks and the fire giants use acid-based ones. It's still elemental, but it throws a curve ball at your players...