Resonance, Potency, & Potions: A Look At Magic Items in Pathfinder 2

Paizo has been delving into the way magic items work in its latest previews of Pathfinder 2nd Edition. Last week they spoke about Resonance, a resource that characters have for activating magical items; and on Friday they blogged about Potency, which is linked to the power of a magical weapon.

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Resonance is measured in Resonance Points (RP). Activating an item costs 1 RP, and your RP total is your level plus your Charisma modifier. Paizo points out that "We expect Resonance Points to be a contentious topic, and we're really curious to see how it plays at your tables. It's one of the more experimental changes to the game, and the playtest process gives us a chance to see it in the wild before committing to it."

They also preview a few magic items - cloak of elvenkind, floating shield, staff of healing, and some trinkets such as a fear gem, and vanishing coin.

When it comes to weapons, Resonance is not required; weapons have a "potency" value, which is roughly equivalent to its "plus" -- it gives you a bonus to attack, increases damage by a whole damage die per potency point (i.e. a +1 longsword gives +1 to hit and +1d8 damage). Potency and special qualities are limited by a weapon's quality - standard, expert, master, legendary.

Quality	Max Potency	Max Properties
Standard	+0	0
Expert	+2	1
Master	+4	2
Legendary	+5	3

Potency and properties are contained within transferrable magical runes, often found on a runestone. Some examples shown are disrupting, and vorpal.

Amor similarly has potency and properties. Potency affects AC, TAC, and saving throws. Some properties include invisibility and fortification.

This takes us on to potions. Potions can now have high level effects, and they don't have to be tied to the spell lists. Examples including healing potions, invisibility potions, dragon's breath potions, and oil of mending.​

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[AbdulAlhazred]

Why? They get to be held captive for weeks at a time, before they are sacrificed at the next full moon. Time constraints, in general, are a bit more relaxed.

Alternatively, the warlock's castle is indeed fortified with seven layers of minions which must be overcome before midnight, but they're the sort of minion which the party can manage to get through seven layers of without needing to heal. In the exact same way that 4E assumes enough combat in a day for the party to run through their healing surges, so too does AD&D assume enough combat in a day to challenge the party's resources. Objective damage sustained is irrelevant, in either case. The only important thing is that you have enough HP to do what you need to do.

Right, though with AD&D the fly in the ointment was the fairly scattershot nature of the results of any given encounter. It was quite easy, absent even the slightest mistake, to get the tar beat out of you by something or other, and then you're basically done for day. It worked best at between 4th and 9th levels where the fighter-types were pretty solid, the wizards weren't out of control, and everyone had enough hit points to probably not be insta-ganked by most monsters (and the ones that COULD do it were generally pretty obvious and you could avoid going toe-to-toe with them). Poison and a few scattered SODs were the fly in the ointment even then. Ghouls and Ghasts were the usual culprits in any total debacle, ridiculously nasty SOD on a 4hd creature.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Right, though with AD&D the fly in the ointment was the fairly scattershot nature of the results of any given encounter. It was quite easy, absent even the slightest mistake, to get the tar beat out of you by something or other, and then you're basically done for day.

In AD&D, fights had longer-lasting consequences, which meant that a fight going poorly could wreck your whole month even if it didn't kill you. In later editions, it's either TPK or nothing.

You could get around the additional uncertainty by playing it more conservatively with encounter difficulty, and not engaging with anything that could really challenge you, but AD&D also didn't have a defined "expected encounter by character level" formula. There's no level at which two ogres and a wyvern are an appropriate encounter, so it might be an easy encounter for a level 5 party, or a difficult encounter for a level 10 party, depending on which other variables you had in effect. If the DM was trying to create an interesting game, then they would design the world such that the party wouldn't need to overcome many difficult combats in order to get things done.

 

[Aldarc]

Charisma bonus?

So a bookish awkward and yet genius-savant Wizard cannot activate an arcane-based magical item as much as a charming Rogue of the same level? Can you imagine the metagaming conversations everywhere as the high Charisma PC gets the best magic items purely because they are better at smalltalk with NPCs.

Ugh - what rubbish - it should be level based alone, at low level especially this is going to be horrible where there is a real difference between one PCs Cha stat and another.

I don't see the issue. In fact, this seems like this mechanic works better with a number of D&D's assumptions.

As several points of comparison, there are people who study/know sports and there are people who play sports. I may grasp the mechanics of play from a studious perspective, but someone else may be better suited, whether by body or mind, for grasping the game through play. Likewise, I may study languages or learn languages as part of my study, but there are people for whom learning new languages comes easier, though they may put far less effort into dedicated study of understanding the mechanics, features, and nature of the language. Same with music, which may be the most apt comparison.

In the case of D&D, the wizard, for example, approaches magic from an intellectual level. They dedicated themselves to its study. They understand its metaphysics and power. They learn to perform magic, and they can eventually manipulate the fabric of reality on a cosmic scale. They have tremendous breadth of magical power through their spellbook and knowledge, but I don't think that this means that these are the people who possesses the greatest knack for magic or that it comes easily to them. Wizards may not be that naturally attuned to magic, though they may have ways to learn how to increase their resonance. They are music theorists attempting to write and perform music. Sure, it may sound impressive, but maybe there are other people who have a natural knack for music who can do other musical things better.

But what stat is natural magic associated with? As it turns out, Charisma. We could speculate why that is the case or the implications thereof, but does it matter? It is what it is, and this association is not new within the inner workings of the 3e framework. Use Magic Device keys off Charisma. The "pure" magic of dragons is also associated with Charisma. Same with Sorcerers and Bards.

I think that this adds an interesting depth to the dynamics between classes and characters. I appreciate that this means that wizards aren't necessarily the best at everything magical. It may annoy wizards (and their hardcore players) that a charismatic rogue has a better knack for using magical items than they do. That's natural. Even the smartest people can be frustrated by being out-shined by the natural gifts and talents of others.

 

[houser2112]

I don't see the issue. In fact, this seems like this mechanic works better with a number of D&D's assumptions.

As several points of comparison, there are people who study/know sports and there are people who play sports. I may grasp the mechanics of play from a studious perspective, but someone else may be better suited, whether by body or mind, for grasping the game through play. Likewise, I may study languages or learn languages as part of my study, but there are people for whom learning new languages comes easier, though they may put far less effort into dedicated study of understanding the mechanics, features, and nature of the language. Same with music, which may be the most apt comparison.

In the case of D&D, the wizard, for example, approaches magic from an intellectual level. They dedicated themselves to its study. They understand its metaphysics and power. They learn to perform magic, and they can eventually manipulate the fabric of reality on a cosmic scale. They have tremendous breadth of magical power through their spellbook and knowledge, but I don't think that this means that these are the people who possesses the greatest knack for magic or that it comes easily to them. Wizards may not be that naturally attuned to magic, though they may have ways to learn how to increase their resonance. They are music theorists attempting to write and perform music. Sure, it may sound impressive, but maybe there are other people who have a natural knack for music who can do other musical things better.

But what stat is natural magic associated with? As it turns out, Charisma. We could speculate why that is the case or the implications thereof, but does it matter? It is what it is, and this association is not new within the inner workings of the 3e framework. Use Magic Device keys off Charisma. The "pure" magic of dragons is also associated with Charisma. Same with Sorcerers and Bards.

I think that this adds an interesting depth to the dynamics between classes and characters. I appreciate that this means that wizards aren't necessarily the best at everything magical. It may annoy wizards (and their hardcore players) that a charismatic rogue has a better knack for using magical items than they do. That's natural. Even the smartest people can be frustrated by being out-shined by the natural gifts and talents of others.

This post is great at answering the question of "Why was Charisma chosen as the stat that influences Resonance?". I happen to agree with the premise "If we're going to saddle the game with the concept of Resonance, then Charisma is a good stat to influence it", but I vehemently disagree that "Should we saddle the game with the concept of Resonance" is True.

 

[Aldarc]

This post is great at answering the question of "Why was Charisma chosen as the stat that influences Resonance?". I happen to agree with the premise "If we're going to saddle the game with the concept of Resonance, then Charisma is a good stat to influence it", but I vehemently disagree that "Should we saddle the game with the concept of Resonance" is True.

I don't think that the latter needs to be true. It is a balancing mechanism and aesthetic. Tastes and preferences will naturally vary.

I'm fairly neutral on resonance. I'm mostly curious how it will play out. I am fascinated by the in-game implications regarding the infusion of magic in "non-magical" people. It seems reasonable from the simulationist framework that D&D often presents about magic and the like.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’m actually liking Resonance more and more the longer I have to stew on it. Both mechanically and lore-wise, it has a big impact, so I can see why it’s so controversial. Personally, I love what it does mechanically, and am neutral on the lore implications, but could see myself having fun with them. My only grievances with it are that I don’t like the Alchemist getting Int-based Resonance (if that’s possible, why don’t Wizards have it?) and some items still having charges even though part of the selling point of Resonance is supposed to be that it replaces the need to track item charges.

 

[houser2112]

I’m actually liking Resonance more and more the longer I have to stew on it. Both mechanically and lore-wise, it has a big impact, so I can see why it’s so controversial. Personally, I love what it does mechanically, and am neutral on the lore implications, but could see myself having fun with them. My only grievances with it are that I don’t like the Alchemist getting Int-based Resonance (if that’s possible, why don’t Wizards have it?) and some items still having charges even though part of the selling point of Resonance is supposed to be that it replaces the need to track item charges.

I think the bookkeeping argument they're using to sell Resonance is just a smoke screen for "we really just don't like CLW wand spam". I like tracking item charges, in the sense that this item has a certain amount of juice in it, and when its gone, the item no longer works. It makes sense. It simulates reality, to use a dirty word. Resonance doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that you can't drink the potion because you read a scroll earlier in the day (or whatever). It takes what used to be an outside-the-character resource and brings it inside. I see consumables as something to use when you run out of your own resources (or didn't have in-character means suitable to the task at hand), and now they're both inside-and outside-the-character resources.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the bookkeeping argument they're using to sell Resonance is just a smoke screen for "we really just don't like CLW wand spam".

It seems rather silly to use a smokescreen for something you’re not trying to hide. They’ve been pretty explicit about CLW spam being one of the problems Resonance was designed to fix. It also keeps bookkeeping to a minimum, so...

I like tracking item charges,

That’s fine for you. I don’t.

in the sense that this item has a certain amount of juice in it, and when its gone, the item no longer works. It makes sense. It simulates reality, to use a dirty word.

“Makes sense” is just a keyword for “fits with my biases.” Magic item charges don’t simulate reality because magic items don’t exist in reality. They resemble something you are familiar with (batteries), so they fit with your biases, as a person who lives in a world where we power lots of things with batteries. It doesn’t actually make any more or less sense than any other way you could write magic working, because magic is fictional, it can work any way the writer wants it to, as long as it’s internally consistent.

Resonance doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that you can't drink the potion because you read a scroll earlier in the day (or whatever).

It makes sense if you buy into the fiction. In this universe, potions and scrolls don’t have an internal power source. The ink on the page and the reagents in the vial are innert until catalyzed by the magical energy of a living being. And a living being can only produce so much of this energy in one day. Essentially, instead of magic items having their own batteries, you have to serve as the battery. The same way a wizard serves as the battery for her spells. If anything, it’s more internally consistent with how magic works in a setting where spellcasters are limited in the number of spells they can cast per day.

It takes what used to be an outside-the-character resource and brings it inside. I see consumables as something to use when you run out of your own resources (or didn't have in-character means suitable to the task at hand), and now they're both inside-and outside-the-character resources.

If anything, consumable resources being both internal and external is a closer simulation of reality. When you eat food, your body has to spend energy to digest it, so food is both an internal and external resource.

My point is “magic working this way doesn’t make sense” is not a strong argument against a mechanic. Magic isn’t real, whether or not it makes sense is only a question of whether or not you’re willing to buy into the logic of the fiction. There’s nothing wrong with disliking the fictional logic of Resonance, but it doesn’t objectively make any more or less sense than charges.

 

[Tony Vargas]

My point is “magic working this way doesn’t make sense” is not a strong argument against a mechanic. Magic isn’t real, whether or not it makes sense is only a question of whether or not you’re willing to buy into the logic of the fiction. There’s nothing wrong with disliking the fictional logic of Resonance, but it doesn’t objectively make any more or less sense than charges.

Magic isn't real, but there are RL traditions & beliefs about magic and how it works, and they do make (internal) sense, after a fashion (viewed from an outsider/scientific perspective, they make sense only in psychological/anthropological terms).
D&D magic - whether neo- or paleo- Vancian casting; charged wands; resonance; or whatever - bears very little resemblance those traditions or beliefs.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I like tracking item charges, in the sense that this item has a certain amount of juice in it, and when its gone, the item no longer works. It makes sense. It simulates reality, to use a dirty word. Resonance doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that you can't drink the potion because you read a scroll earlier in the day (or whatever). It takes what used to be an outside-the-character resource and brings it inside. I see consumables as something to use when you run out of your own resources (or didn't have in-character means suitable to the task at hand), and now they're both inside-and outside-the-character resources.

Charges make sense, if you draw a parallel to a gun or a battery-powered radio. Of course, when the battery dies in your radio, you usually don't throw out the whole device as worthless. You don't throw away the gun, when you're out of bullets (unless you're fighting Superman). Charges would make more sense, intuitively, if wands could also be re-charged (as in 5E).

Resonance makes sense if you think of the wand as something like a lense, for shaping your own internal energies. Wands are a re-usable lense, and potions or scrolls are a one-time use lense, but you still have a finite amount of internal energy either way. I can't really think of a good real-world analogy, unless you wanted to go with what Charlaquin said about food, but it still makes just as much sense as a potential way that magic could work.

If anything, consumable resources being both internal and external is a closer simulation of reality. When you eat food, your body has to spend energy to digest it, so food is both an internal and external resource.

The degree by which I'm tempted to replace Cure potions with enchanted apples hidden behind candlesticks, and magic roasted turkey in chandeliers, is significant.