Response to Woas about HARP

Overall, I like HARP. I give it a thumbs up. It's simple, in a good way. It looks like it would handle pretty much anything you'd want to see in a typical fantasy game. Also, if you got the pdf like I did, it's inexpensive.

That said, I don't forsee it replacing my other favorite systems. I'll probably use some of the ideas from HARP in other games (like scaling spells). I'll probably pick up some of the supplements for similar reasons.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Henry said:
My opinion was mixed; it was fascinating to sift through, and try to figure out, never having seen Rolemaster, which parts were similar to Rolemaster, and which parts were brand-new. It definitely seems like it plays smoother than I had been led to believe - and Rolemaster style percentile rolls were definitely different from what I imagined (At first I had thought them more like CoC or Runequest).
Had never thought that might be an issue. Just to make it absolutely clear for anybody else who might have this same issue, HARP uses a roll-over percentage mechanism. This means that you roll, add your bonuses (i.e. total skill bonus) and modifiers (difficulty modifiers normally, all are multiples of 20, both positive and negative) to this roll, and then determine success (or degree of success if using one of the columns from the Maneuver Table - most skills just require a 101 or higher to succeed with no table look-ups).
Henry said:
What I do like, is the piecemeal approach to building a character through feats and skills (like what Mutants and Masterminds does for superheroes, this does for fantasy). I could build pretty much anything I wanted to similar to a D&D 3E character, through the skills and talents, albeit slower than such is given in D&D. At first I was thinking the Development Points (DP's) were excessive, but then realized they were nowhere near enough! :) Good balance overall, however, and much finer gradations of success, not just through the percentile system, but through the two or three different means of resoution mechanics.
Thanks! I wanted to allow for different kinds of maneuvers without making it complicated, yet also wanted to make sure that what was allowed for also allowed for resolution of anything not covered by the rules. The three main columns of the maneuver table (Perecntage, Bonus, & RR) can be used to resolve almost any sort of situation. Combined with the default All-or-nothing method, this allows for any conceivable situation to be covered, even those highly unusual and complex situations that PCs like to get themselves into.

Using that table, the next time a PC says " I want run on the pile of orcs we knocked down, and jump up and swing across the room on the chandelier to the door on the other side", all you would have to do is say, "Ok, that is going to be a comlpex action, so we will use the Percentage Column of the Maneuver Table. It is also going to be Extremely Hard to accomplish, but you do get to use any Acrobatics skill that you have." and boom! instant method to resolve it!
Henry said:
What I DON'T like, is the Percentage system of success - it really bugged me the way it worked, and I can't put my finger solidly on why. Perhaps it's the examples I read, because it seemed like to figure out what percentage of something you've accomplished, it maps out directly to the result on your percentile roll, with no modifiers for skill, which doesn't seem right.
When you can put your finger on it, let me know, okay? For the most part, the system works in muhc the same way as d20 for resolution (just uses different dice), especially if you think of the difficulty modifiers as "DC modifiers". Thus instead of telling a player that they get a -20 to the roll for a Hard Maneuver, just tell them that they need a 121 or higher, or don't tell them at all and just ask for their total (and apply the difficulty mod yourself). :D
Henry said:
The only other thing that bugs me slightly is the dependence on two scores instead of one for skills; "dependence" might be a strong word, but it may take a while to get used to skill defaults in this system.
That is likely from being not fully used to HARP yet. To me, two stats beign associated with a skill is natural, and having only one stat asociated isn't. Then again, I am more used to HARP and to Rolemaster before it (note: the current version of Rolemaster has 3 stats for each skill... hehe).
Henry said:
Other than that, the only other thing that put me off were the number of modifiers for combat; for the sake of excitement as well as accuracy, there seemed to be an overwhelming number of them.
Which you can easily pair down to what you like. :) Note however, that if you are referring to the Combat Actions, I would most definitely leave Full Parry, Parry, and a couple of others as well (Parrying is extremely important in HARP!) :D
Henry said:
The final thing to HARP is the flavor - forget Hackmaster, THIS is the game that catapults me to the feelings I had when I used to play 1st edition D&D - kind of a nostalgia/novelty hybrid feeling that had me interested in reading the rules and wanting to set something up with them for people to play. An Idea is forming in my mind about a series of one-shots of different game systems - Some of my players are already wanting me to run a Continuum game for them, I wonder how they'd feel about a HARP one-shot or two-shot. Hmmm...
Huzzah!
Henry said:
But overall, the system screams playable at first glance, as well as amazingly customizeable, and much lower-power than D&D gets at higher levels.
Glad that you liked it overall. :D
 

I got it friday and its pretty good. Without actually playing it will be hard to see how the resoulution mechainc feels but on the surface I like it. The magic seems quite a bit more low magic than D&D I'll have to see how it works out but the mana seems like it would disapear really quickly and because of how the skill system works will grow slowly past the early levels. It all depends on how much augmentation is needed to maintain a competative edge with the other classes. But I need more, I want more spells I have to either find or get rules on enchanting items, oh and I want a mage who animates undead 30 or 40 development points for the cleric list is a lot. Though since you can't really control undead for more than a couple minutes at best I don't see why anyone with a shred of sanity would summon any undead. Summoning though is a classic area of magic they seemed light on there was a create undead spell and um summon animal.

Alos good or bad is up to you but virtually everything is short duration, spells last rounds lots of times many rounds but rounds anyways. So there really is no long term buff without actually palying the system I don't knw if the buffs are potent enough for there cost with such a short duraiton.(usually 1 or 2 rounds per rank in a skill a round being 2 seconds I believe so at the really high end a skill of 100 in a buff spell would mean your spell would last like 400 seconds(800 with the duraiton modifier talent) so 6-7 mintues or 13-14 mintutes.
 

Shard O'Glase said:
I got it friday and its pretty good. Without actually playing it will be hard to see how the resoulution mechainc feels but on the surface I like it.
Cool! :cool:
Shard O'Glase said:
The magic seems quite a bit more low magic than D&D I'll have to see how it works out but the mana seems like it would disapear really quickly and because of how the skill system works will grow slowly past the early levels. It all depends on how much augmentation is needed to maintain a competative edge with the other classes.
Well, there are decives such as spell adders (free casting of spells) and Power Point Adders (reduces cost of casting spells) that will help. However, magic users also get mana back through resting, so a few hours of rest and they can regain at least some of their mana for casting.. :D
Shard O'Glase said:
But I need more, I want more spells I have to either find or get rules on enchanting items, oh
Well, then I think that you will want College of Magics. In it are rules for spell creation, as well as spells for Item Creation (via the Thaumaturge profession). Rituals can also be used for item creation, as you can learn rituals for spells without having to know the spell.
Shard O'Glase said:
and I want a mage who animates undead 30 or 40 development points for the cleric list is a lot. Though since you can't really control undead for more than a couple minutes at best I don't see why anyone with a shred of sanity would summon any undead. Summoning though is a classic area of magic they seemed light on there was a create undead spell and um summon animal.
Would a Necromancer do? One who basically Masters an Undead for a very long time (nearly indefinitely if cast properly).

Summoning (especially demons) will be treated in a supplement due to be released next year. Its title is going to be "Something Wicked". :D

To give you a better idea of what is in College of Magics, here is the Table of Contents from it.

Code:
TABLE OF CONTENTS
INTRODUCTION
MAGICAL THEORY & PRACTICE 
	What Is Magic? 
	The Premises of Magic 
	Magic is Energy 
	Magic and the Planes
	Magic and the Elements
	The Web of Mana 
	The Unpredictability of Magic 
	Replenishment of Mana
	The Limits of Magic
	Magic and Belief
	The Practice of Magic
	Using Magic versus Spell Casting 
	How Spell Casting Works 
	Spell Casting and Armor 
	Sigils, Glyphs, Runes, Seals and Grimoires 
TYPES OF MAGIC 
	Blood Magic 
	Natural Magic
	Alchemy 
	Charmcraft 
	Ritual Magic 
	Rune Magic 
	Spell Magic 
	High Magic 
	Low Magic 
	Middle Magic 
		Great Circle of Elementalism 
		Great Circle of Magery 
		Great Circle of Necromancy 
		Great Circle of Thaumaturgy
		Great Circle of Vivamancy 
		Spheres of the Clerics 
		Sphere of the Harper 
		Sphere of the Ranger 
		Sphere of the Warrior Mage 
		Universal Sphere 
	Other Types of Magic 
THE PRACTITIONERS OF MAGIC 
	Professions 
	Training Packages 
	Mana Sources 
	Spell Focus Styles 
THE STUDY OF MAGIC 
	Learning Magic 
	Grimoires and Libraries 
	Researching Magic 
	New Magic
NEW SKILLS & TALENTS
	The Skills of Magic 
	The Talents of Magic
	Blood Magic 
NATURAL MAGIC 
	Natural Magic: An Occult Science 
	Alchemy 
	Charmcraft 
	The Costs of Alchemy and Charmcraft 
	Esoteric Substances and Occult Properties 
RITUALS & RUNES 
	Ritual Magic 
	Ritual Research 
	Rune Magic 
SPELL MAGIC 
	Low Magic 
	Middle Magic
	High Magic 
MAGICAL ENCHANTMENT 
	Types of Magical Items 
	The Process of Temporary Enchantment 
	Permanent Item Enchantment
	Item Creation Examples 
	The Cost of Magical Items 
	Exotic Magical Powers 
	Cursed Items 
MAGIC IN THE SETTING
	Which Types of Magic? 
	Magic and Society 
	Magic as Technology 
	Magic versus Technology 
	Magical Organizations 
	Adventure and Campaign Seeds
 

Shard O'Glase said:
The magic seems quite a bit more low magic than D&D I'll have to see how it works out but the mana seems like it would disapear really quickly and because of how the skill system works will grow slowly past the early levels.

Oh! Another reason to pick up College of Magics. In it, there are rules for using 'fixed mana' (i.e. material components!). Using those rules, a mage can rely more on mana from the material components than he does on his own Power Points, and thus be able to cast more spells before running out. Thus the material components augment his power points like spell and PP Adders do. CoM has multiple ways for tweaking your spell users (HARP mentions a few, but gives no details on how to accomplish this).
 

Okay, to answer a question from another thread...
tassander said:
Bye the bye, I'm sad to hear that one major distributor doesn't carry ICE products. How come?
Personal issues. What is boils down to is that one of the VPs at Alliance does not like my boss, and thus refuses to carry anything from ICE.

I cannot remember if it was Osseum or not (if not, it was somebody who functions in a similair manner), but one fulfillment house tried to get ICE to sign with them thinking that they could get Alliance to carry ICE products if they carried them (i.e. get Alliance to carry ICE from the fulfillment house rather than from ICE directly). They were told that Alliance would carry anything and everything that they carried, except for ICE products.
 

Rasyr said:
Personal issues. What is boils down to is that one of the VPs at Alliance does not like my boss, and thus refuses to carry anything from ICE.

And you know, people in the gaming industry make such fat stacks of cash that they can just throw away sales like that. :\
 

Greatwyrm said:
And you know, people in the gaming industry make such fat stacks of cash that they can just throw away sales like that. :\
hehe... You would think so, huh? (it might be best to start another thread altogether if you want to continue this discussion)


Ok, back on topic........ :D
Any more comments or questions about HARP??
 
Last edited:


JoeGKushner said:
http://www.guildcompanion.com/auxx/modules.html

It's not what I was thinking of, but it is a d20 conversion that's supposed to be licensed.
AH.. the ShadowWorld d20 project. Nick is just waiting on some last minute licensing details to be worked out (if my boss can ever find the time to get it done heheh)
JoeGKushner said:
Still, I could swear somewhere down the road there was talk of a dual statted monster-magic item book.

Curse my low ability to recall...
Hmm.... I don't seem to recall anything of that (which is not proof in either direction as I could be just going brain dead.... :D )

I know that at the moment, ICE has no plans to produce and d20 products (the current ICE formed too late - there were already dozens, if not hundreds of d20 companies on the market when Mjolnir LLC dba Iron Crown Enterprises opened its doors).

However, as noted in the link, we have authorized The Guild Companion (in which I have posted several d20 articles myself, back before I started working for ICE) to reprint as pdf anything which ICE is not planning to reprint, and to do the d20 version of Shadow World.

The Shadow World d20 conversion was done by Rob Defendi, who wrote the entire current Spacemaster line, and who, IIRC, worked on the Stargate RPG as well.
 

Remove ads

Top