D&D 5E Resurrection & Healing Magic with a price ... for the caster

[cbwjm]

I've thought about going back to 2e rules for raise dead and resurrection and have the caster age several years when casting them. Revivify would be exempt from this rule due to how soon it needs to be used to work. I had thought about using a system shock DC and maybe also lowering the constitution of the raised hero, but I'm not sure I want to be that punishing. The aging thing would be more background than anything as it would explain why people aren't constantly being restored to life. If my players manage to hit 9th level, we'll we don't have a cleric anyway so it still won't really be an issue.

In many groups, playing the cleric is only done reluctantly anyway, by someone who'd prefer to be playing something else but who knows there has to be a cleric for party balance. Piling XP penalties (or whatever) on the reluctant player of a cleric PC for doing the job they feel themselves obliged to do isn't going to make party or group dynamics any better.

I'm not sure this is as big an issue in 5e as in previous editions. Plenty of people want to play clerics, there are plenty of other classes with access to healing magic, there are plenty of other ways to heal up. This may not actually be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if the only groups who feel like they need a cleric are players of 3e and earlier, and even 3e didn't rely on having a cleric in the group.

 

[humble minion]

I'm not sure this is as big an issue in 5e as in previous editions. Plenty of people want to play clerics, there are plenty of other classes with access to healing magic, there are plenty of other ways to heal up. This may not actually be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if the only groups who feel like they need a cleric are players of 3e and earlier, and even 3e didn't rely on having a cleric in the group.

This is entirely true when it comes to healing, but raising/resurrection/revivification is the subject of the thread, and that's largely still in the cleric's lap.

 

[Raduin711]

I think from a worldbuilding perspective, I like that resurrection carries that kind of risk.

Here's how I might do it:

When cast, the spellcaster goes into a trance, being unable to move or observe their surroundings. He petitions the powers to return the target to life, and to do so the caster must offer up his own life force. He then rolls resurrection checks, which are flat dc 10 checks. Every time he succeeds, he erases 1 of the deceased character's failed death saves. Every time he fails, the caster takes 1 death failure. A natural 1 is worth two failures, a natural 20 instantly resurrects the fallen character. Once the cleric has rolled 3 successful resurrection checks and removed all of the deceased character's failed death saves, the dead character is restored to life and the ritual ends. If the caster rolls 3 failures, the caster's life is forfeit and dies. If the ritual ends this way the target of the spell is turned to ash, and can only be resurrected with a True Resurrection spell.

Once started, the ritual is difficult to stop. The caster's body is not under his complete control while their life hangs in the balance. An outside observer can only guess at how well the proceedings are going. If an outside force halts the ritual, the caster takes 1 failed resurrection check and the body is turned to ash. The caster may attempt to end the ritual early, but doing so safely requires a successful resurrection check. The caster survives the ordeal, but the body is turned to ash.

 

[cbwjm]

This is entirely true when it comes to healing, but raising/resurrection/revivification is the subject of the thread, and that's largely still in the cleric's lap.

Actually the subject of the thread is resurrection & healing magic. But even resurrection magic is spread around, paladins, and artificers also have access to revivify, a lore bard could use one of their early magical secrets to pick it up as well. Raise dead is a late game spell for a paladin but a bard gets it at the same level as a cleric. A celestial warlock or sorcerer can revivify, the sorcerer can also pick up one of other resurrection spells if they really wanted to, perhaps using their bonus spell gained at 1st level and upgrading it to raise dead at level 9.

A druid can reincarnate and later cast true resurrection so they can pick up some of the slack at mid to high levels, especially if you aren't super attached to your first body. If a scroll of raise dead is found then a 13th level thief could hold onto it and cast if necessary, they could also use the rod of resurrection though as a legendary item that might be unlikely to show up (side note, I'd also probably allow a celestial sorcerer and warlock attune to this).

Also, is it not common that there is an NPC healer high enough level to restore a fallen ally to life in most campaigns?

 

[cbwjm]

I think from a worldbuilding perspective, I like that resurrection carries that kind of risk.

Here's how I might do it:

When cast, the spellcaster goes into a trance, being unable to move or observe their surroundings. He petitions the powers to return the target to life, and to do so the caster must offer up his own life force. He then rolls resurrection checks, which are flat dc 10 checks. Every time he succeeds, he erases 1 of the deceased character's failed death saves. Every time he fails, the caster takes 1 death failure. A natural 1 is worth two failures, a natural 20 instantly resurrects the fallen character. Once the cleric has rolled 3 successful resurrection checks and removed all of the deceased character's failed death saves, the dead character is restored to life and the ritual ends. If the caster rolls 3 failures, the caster's life is forfeit and dies. If the ritual ends this way the target of the spell is turned to ash, and can only be resurrected with a True Resurrection spell.

Once started, the ritual is difficult to stop. The caster's body is not under his complete control while their life hangs in the balance. An outside observer can only guess at how well the proceedings are going. If an outside force halts the ritual, the caster takes 1 failed resurrection check and the body is turned to ash. The caster may attempt to end the ritual early, but doing so safely requires a successful resurrection check. The caster survives the ordeal, but the body is turned to ash.

That would certainly make for a tense resurrection ritual.

 

[Raduin711]

That would certainly make for a tense resurrection ritual.

I have always kind of felt like in D&D resurrection spells were treated like something that only adventurers really used, which is really, really odd to me. Diamond dust would be the most important commodity ever. It would define culture. Nobility would be defined by being able to afford it, commoners would kill for it. One murder, one accidental death and suddenly you have a whole grief-stricken community desperate to get into the coffers of a noble or someone rumored to have some diamond dust. Frank Herbert eat your heart out.

At least if the caster had to put their life on the line, the fact that you had a chance of turning one dead person into two dead people might mitigate that... somewhat.

 

[akr71]

In original AD&D, the caster had to give up 1 point of Constitution permanently to raise up the dead, and the recipient lost 1 point of Constitution. Hardcore, but you could homebrew that you can cast, or be raised, as many times as you have Constitution points.

I remembered that the resurectee lost a point of Constitution, but I didn't remember the resurecter losing one. Thanks for reminding me. Alas, I was barely in junior high when I was playing AD&D and it was pretty much a Maunty Haul campaign. 18/00 strength, why of course I rolled that! And the 18 intelligence too!

Actually the subject of the thread is resurrection & healing magic.

If I were to implement something for healing magic, I'd have to walk a fine line between penalty and resource. Of course spell slots are already a resource, so it would be doubling down on a roll some clerics already feel is thrust upon them.

I might poll my group to see if there is any appetite for a more gritty campaign. I suspect not though. I am much more comfortable with character death than the rest of the people I play with - as a player and as a DM. As long as the death is memorable

 

[Fanaelialae]

I have always kind of felt like in D&D resurrection spells were treated like something that only adventurers really used, which is really, really odd to me. Diamond dust would be the most important commodity ever. It would define culture. Nobility would be defined by being able to afford it, commoners would kill for it. One murder, one accidental death and suddenly you have a whole grief-stricken community desperate to get into the coffers of a noble or someone rumored to have some diamond dust. Frank Herbert eat your heart out.

At least if the caster had to put their life on the line, the fact that you had a chance of turning one dead person into two dead people might mitigate that... somewhat.

That's making a pretty big assumption, that every community has a cleric of at least 9th level at their beck and call. IMC, classed characters are rare and high level characters even more so. That solves the issue fairly effectively, since most NPCs wouldn't know where to even begin to look for someone who can raise the dead, much less that they need diamonds to do so.

 

[Oofta]

I've restricted access to bringing someone back from the dead for several editions now for thematic reasons. I use Norse mythology as my base, and even gods like Baldur can irrevocably die. Why should mortals be any different?

So all souls travel through Nifleheim/Shadowfell before moving on to their final destination. To raise someone from the dead you need to physically go into Nifleheim which is a dangerous task. Resurrection is basically unheard of.

As far as magical healing, while there are few people that can heal with a single word, I do assume that magical healing is just part of the world. That brew the hedge witch makes really does increase your odds of surviving a disease, wounds are less likely to get infected with a magical poultice and heals more quickly.

So I just assume these things are part of normal life. After all, something has to compensate for all those people getting killed off by things that go bump in the night.

 

[Raduin711]

That's making a pretty big assumption, that every community has a cleric of at least 9th level at their beck and call. IMC, classed characters are rare and high level characters even more so. That solves the issue fairly effectively, since most NPCs wouldn't know where to even begin to look for someone who can raise the dead, much less that they need diamonds to do so.

Then that one 9th level cleric is a very important person. We call him shai-halud, the one who brings the dead back to life.