Return of the Bard

[Sunseeker]

I totally realize that the fighting magical bard is a staple of the genre, though I do certainly favor the more traveling minstrel as my "ideal" bard. Not really the fancy-pantsy guy you describe, but more like the guy who roams the county on their motorcycle and plays their guitar at random small-town pubs for no other reason than they can. Or the old guy who travels around telling stories of the days of old. A magic that is more charisma than it is spells.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=56189]Kzach[/MENTION] I accuse you of wanting the bard to kill the warlord and take his stuff!

 

[trancejeremy]

The biggest problem of the 1e bard was its hit dice didn't stop - they just kept going and going, so he could be the toughest thing in existence, basically.

But it's weird, like the Ranger and Illusionist, the Bard was first in The Strategic Review for OD&D (where it was meant to be a cross between the real bard, the skald, and the minstrel). But there it didn't have any funky class changing stuff, it was just a single class and cast MU spells. It did have those class abilities to a degree, so maybe that was the inspiration for EGG's revision.

I like the one in Dragon 56 the best - casts illusionist and druid spells.

 

[variant]

The best bard concept comes from Monte Cook's Book of Eldritch Might II.

 

[Endur]

Bards are awesome, but the AD&D triple class stuff was wierd. As far as I know, it was the only triple class that AD&D ever had.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Didn't we just have a thread on this topic?

Anyways, I'll respond to this thread the same way I did that last: Bards are musicians. Music and performance should be the center of the class, whether you consider that performance to be magical or not. To this end, the 4E Skald Bard presented in Heroes of the Feywild is easily one of the best Bard classes that has ever been in D&D. Not quite perfect yet, but considerably closer to perfect than I expected to see in D&D.

I honestly have no idea why you would want a Bard class for anything other than music. Music is a fantastic thing to build a class around. Being a "jack of all trades" or some kind of vaguely-defined warrior-scholar with strong norse flavor is not.

 

[Umbran]

I like the original AD&D bard.

Okay...

They should have divine magic from nature and be just as comfortable in heavy armour as light. Wands aren't their thing; spears, greatswords and hacking axes are the bard's bread and butter.

Except, the AD&D bard isn't that. The AD&D bard can wear leather armor, and chainmail only if it is magical. No heavy armor, and they cannot use shields. They don't get to use greatswords or axes. He gets a few levels of d10 for hit points, and then is using d6s for most of his career. And that original bard was human and half-elf only. No dwarf of half-orc bards.

So, you like the original bard, but all the things you want in a bard aren't in the original bard? I'm not sure I understand that.

Oh, and trancejeremy is incorrect - the original bard's hit dice do stop, up at 11th level. A bard will effectively get a few more hit dice than another character of the same level, but it isn't unlimited.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

i guess the 1st edition bard was rather a prestige class. In 2nd edition it became a sub class of rogue.

I must say I love both variants, although i prefer the skald type. The warrior poet is a wonderful archetype. Something that just belongs into D&D.

But on the otherhand, the arcane trickster is also iconic.

So the 4e valourous bard and cunning bard were actually quite close to my vision of those types. Especially when the valourous bard can borrow from the skald now.

 

[nightwalker450]

I just want to put in more on how awesome the Skald build from Heroes of the Feywild (4e) is.

I see is as a great leader, inspiring the troops. They aren't healers as much as they lead by example, and the party better keep up (Healing is open to anyone to trigger for themself, or by assisting an adjacent ally).

I've created 2, one for Lair Assault.. Half-Orc with a few barbarian multi-classes, battle-axe and shield. Provides bonuses/Healing, but is a raging berserker. (14 Charisma, and I think an 8 intelligence) The other I'm playing in Encounters, a Genasi Cindersoul, is the first to charge with his Greatspear. Knowledgeable, but not very friendly (only social skill is intimidate). But the way the new build is setup, you can be a Strong War Chief style leader.

 

[Kzach]

I'm not sure I understand that.

You never do.