Return of the Bard

[WheresMyD20]

He gets a few levels of d10 for hit points, and then is using d6s for most of his career.

True, but remember that the 10 hit dice he gains as a bard are in addition to those he gained as a fighter and thief. This means he can have up to 19 total hit dice, each of which can receive a bonus from constitution.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Bards are musicians. Music and performance should be the center of the class

I disagree.

The word "bard" means "poet." I don't mind if that means "poet and/or musician," but I would greatly appreciate an option that allows bards to be non-musical, as previous editions have done.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I disagree.

The word "bard" means "poet." I don't mind if that means "poet and/or musician," but I would greatly appreciate an option that allows bards to be non-musical, as previous editions have done.

This isn't totally true... My computer's dictionary lists one meaning as a 16th century derogatory term for an itinerant musician. Also, the concept of a class called the Bard that is based around music is pretty common. 3E's Bard is the one musician class. Final Fantasy's Bard is a musician through and through. So it is a common enough idea.

Honestly though, I think the specific name is pretty much irrelevant. What is important to a class is a central concept that can be used as the basis for mechanics and identity. A random jack-of-all-trades with no real gimmick other than knowing a bit of lore and being sociable is not a good concept. That's a character, not a class. No class built on that idea is going to be a good one (good meaning evocative and mechanically interesting). On the other hand, a musician is a good concept to build a class around. It has a strong identity and lends itself to unique mechanics.

Also, I don't really agree with the sort of argument that future editions should give particular options just because older ones did. I won't accept that entire line of thinking. Particularly when it is based on shallow things like the names of classes, rather than actual concepts and meaningful mechanics.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Also, I don't really agree with the sort of argument that future editions should give particular options just because older ones did. I won't accept that entire line of thinking. Particularly when it is based on shallow things like the names of classes, rather than actual concepts and meaningful mechanics.

All it has to do is describe bardic song as "music or poetry," which is all 3.x did.

While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies (fa-la-la, and so forth), whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance.
...
Song of Freedom (Sp): A bard of 12th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use music or poetics to create an effect...
...
Countersong (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects...

 

[tuxgeo]

I disagree.

The word "bard" means "poet." I don't mind if that means "poet and/or musician," but I would greatly appreciate an option that allows bards to be non-musical, as previous editions have done.

This isn't totally true... My computer's dictionary lists one meaning as a 16th century derogatory term for an itinerant musician. Also, the concept of a class called the Bard that is based around music is pretty common. 3E's Bard is the one musician class. Final Fantasy's Bard is a musician through and through. So it is a common enough idea.

Honestly though, I think the specific name is pretty much irrelevant.
< . . . snip . . . >

At Wiktionary, a "bard" is described as being "A professional poet and singer, as among the ancient Celts, whose occupation was to compose and sing verses . . ." -- and the Etymology 1 is listed as being (taken from) "A 15th Century loan of Scottish Gaelic bard."

The word poet, however, is Greek.

Overall, "the specific name" refers to the actual inspiration for the class:
Why even have a "bard" class, other than the fact that there have, historically, been "bards" who did interesting things?

 

[tlantl]

I always think of Anne McCaffrey's harpers from the Pern series. Those bards do a lot of different things such as being entertainers teachers spies rogues and musicians.

To me the D&D bard could easily be a harper on pern, their skills and class abilities, although more magical in nature, fulfill the same roles.

I'm not likely to get hung up on classes having to fit into some mold to be deemed fit to be used in a game. If classes need to be evocative and mechanically interesting to be worthy of the game of D&D then they need to chuck the whole deal into the dumpster and make apologies to us for the ton of crap they've been foisting on us for years.

But hey I play the game so I can pretend I'm someone else in a world where I'm needed to protect the innocent from terrible monsters and I can control and shape powerful energies to my will. I don't give a .. er care about how many different things my fighter can do in a round or if he does the same thing over and over.

If I can swing my sword three times, kill off the threat and get on with the rest of the game then I'm happy. one dimensional fighters are boring when a combat takes hours to slog through. Adding more crap to choose from only adds to that problem, to me extended combat is boring. If I want that there's chess or risk, or D&D miniatures.

 

[satori01]

2e Bard all the way. Magical, and more about style and swagger, and you were not forced to take perform skills, or suck in combat.

As previously alluded to, because the Rogue XP chart was less onerous than the Magic User chart, a 2E Bard was about as good as a spellcaster as Wizards....until 7th level spells enter the scene.

 

[Frostmarrow]

No spells, if musicians cast spells it cheapens what wizards do. Bards create their own brand of magic. The lyrics and tunes aren't magical per se but the atmosphere created by a performer can be. Music and stories can sway minds but not through mind control.

I don't like using magic to explain things that can be explained without magic because that trumps mundane concepts that aim for the same niche. If magic is required to make a great performance where emotions are stirred and action incited, it belittles every such attempt without magic.

The other way around, magic becomes less so if every charismatic person with a smidge of showmanship in the world is a wizard of sorts.

 

[GreyICE]

4E bard all the way. An excellent leader who inspires allies, with the Skald build giving him powerful melee options.

Honestly there was not one thing wrong with the 4E bard. The 3E bard was a flaming mess in comparison.