Return to PHB: Best Generic Feats?

[Neonchameleon]

I don't think I've ever taken any of those feats. *Expertise and Superior Weapon/Implement Proficiency are the most likely. Oh, and a multiclass feat to taste. (I've been tempted by toughness and improved initiative - but my Malediction Invoker had the Deva feat for Wis +2 to Initiative instead and my Wizard doesn't have the feats for improved Initiative yet).

 

[Kerranin]

I have taken some of those feats, but none of them across all my PCs. They're all specific to certain types or classes of build. Toughness is about the most cross-class, but it would be far down my list of feat priorities for some classes. (while probably first or second for a defender)

 

[Mengu]

Here is a run down of how many long term characters I've played with and run for have taken these feats at some point (some may have been retrained), out of a pool of 25ish characters:

Alertness (0)
Durable (4)
Far Shot or Far Throw (0)
Fast Runner (0)
Improved Initiative (1)
Long Jumper (0)
Power Attack (0)
Powerful Charge (0)
Quick Draw (2)
Sure Climber (0)
Toughness (8)

The reason I've seen Durable a lot is in my game, I was running some super long adventuring days for a while (7+ encounters). So 3 people picked up Durable.

I haven't seen Weapon Focus as often as you might think because I see dwarves, eladrins, goliaths and the like. But every ranger I've seen had weapon focus, and my sorcerer has it.

Toughness I think is by far the most common feat I've seen, and picked up. Both defenders in my current game have it. Part of the reason that number is so high is that at 1st level most my LFR characters start with Toughness, and then retrain at 3rd or 4th, though at 7th my thaneborn barbarian is still sticking with it.

Multiclass feats are also quite common, they are a splendid bargain. Of the PHB MC feats, I see Warrior of the Wild, Student of Battle, and Initiate of the Faith more than the others.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Again, I left out multiclass feats, skill training, weapon and armor proficiency, and weapon expertise and focus because I wanted to talk about the feats that no one talks about, but that have been around since the first printing of the PHB -- feats that WotC thought were so obvious and basic that they came over on the first ship.

One that surprises me is the zero votes for Far Throw and Far Shot. Surely there is someone out there who likes ranged characters and wants to make sure they are never out of range! Dagger-only Rogues, maybe?

I probably should have written the poll to ask for feats that you always take for every PC for which they would be remotely useful. In other words, if you take Far Shot for all of your ranged characters but not for your melee-only Barbarian, then count it.

I also should have included a None of the Above option. Oh well.

 

[karolusb]

I can see how the way the question is formed would hurt results (though I read it more by intent and less literally myself).

Most of the feats you list aren't good. People who need durable are generally doing something wrong. Far shot adds range to a weapon that already is bigger than the battlemat. Far throw is such a small improvement as to be worthless. Power attack has some proponents, but with the exception of some very specialized builds the tradoff is generally quite bad.

Powerful charge is nice, but good enough? While I am not a fan of improved inititive, some people live and die by initiative (rogues, essentials knights etc.). Toughness is certainly the most common for me, even that frequently gets squeezed out.

PHB included a lot of garbage feats, burning blizzard and company come to mind. They had wanted to scale back the impact of feats, I think (and they seem to agree) that they went a bit too far in doing so, but we are still left with a lot of first generation feats that will see very little use (and far less repeat use).

One that surprises me is the zero votes for Far Throw and Far Shot. Surely there is someone out there who likes ranged characters and wants to make sure they are never out of range! Dagger-only Rogues, maybe?

I probably should have written the poll to ask for feats that you always take for every PC for which they would be remotely useful. In other words, if you take Far Shot for all of your ranged characters but not for your melee-only Barbarian, then count it.

I also should have included a None of the Above option. Oh well.

 

[Dice4Hire]

One that surprises me is the zero votes for Far Throw and Far Shot. Surely there is someone out there who likes ranged characters and wants to make sure they are never out of range! Dagger-only Rogues, maybe?.

With the size of most battles in H123 and on 10 range is enough.

 

[Kerranin]

Most of the feats you list aren't good. People who need durable are generally doing something wrong.

I can see why you'd say durable isn't good, but it isn't always doing something wrong - my dwarf paladin has 12 surges, but chugs them down so fast with Virtue/Second Wind, granted healing and then lay on hands if desperate...

 

[Prestidigitalis]

People who need durable are generally doing something wrong.

Any low-Con, non-Defender melee character would be wise to at least consider Durable at some point: Rogues and TWB Rangers are the obvious cases. It's especially true if you have one or more characters in the party who can easily trigger surges.

Far shot adds range to a weapon that already is bigger than the battlemat.

That's valid.

Far throw is such a small improvement as to be worthless.

I don't know about worthless, but it certainly isn't much of a bump.

Power attack has some proponents, but with the exception of some very specialized builds the tradoff is generally quite bad.

I agree. I'm astonished that one of the Slayer stances is basically just Power Attack. I guess they figure that some people really are that crazy for increased damage.

Powerful charge is nice, but good enough?

I guess it is, for a Charger build. Be damn frustrating when you are immobilized though.

While I am not a fan of improved inititive, some people live and die by initiative (rogues, essentials knights etc.).

I assume the idea is for the Essentials Knight to rush in and lock down a mass of enemies before they move? I don't know though -- even with a +4, the odds of a non-Dex character going early in the initiative order just doesn't seem that great. And the Knight has so many other goodies to go for instead. (Sorry for the tangent, but I'm fascinated by Essentials builds.)

Toughness is certainly the most common for me, even that frequently gets squeezed out.

To me, Toughness is like a global defense bonus. It doesn't matter what you are fighting, you have added protection against it. Because you stay up longer, you may get in an extra attack where otherwise you would be unconscious. Your allies don't waste actions rushing over to administer a Healing Potion. Leaders don't have to sacrifice damage powers for extra healing when they plan their characters.

PHB included a lot of garbage feats, burning blizzard and company come to mind.

Pretty much. Burning Blizzard and the others are just a joke -- the prerequisite stats are such unlikely combinations overall that it's hard to imagine they actually expected anyone to take them, at least at the time PHB was published.

They had wanted to scale back the impact of feats, I think (and they seem to agree) that they went a bit too far in doing so, but we are still left with a lot of first generation feats that will see very little use (and far less repeat use).

But now we know a bit more about which ones actually do get some use, and that was my goal. Yay me! Okay, "yay everyone who responded", but yay nonetheless.

 

[babinro]

Toughness wins in my book. Every character I've seen in person played up to epic has had the feat...often either gaining it in late heroic or late paragon. I'd almost argue that it falls under the feat tax category...except characters can run just fine without it.

I've seen several instances of the Quick Draw feat for melee characters to help deal with ranged combats and make them a little less useless. Durable gets used on classes like Rogues. Aside from that I don't see any others used in my groups.

 

[Fkewl]

weapon/implement/versatile expertise is #1 on any feat list we have in our group.