Reversal of cause and effect on skill rolls?

[Timeboxer]

So after having glanced through a bit of Paranoia XP, it struck me that the D20 Modern game I was playing last night seemed to reverse cause and effect with respect to skill checks. To wit:

Normal:
GM: "Okay, make a Search check." The GM has a DC 15 in mind to find an amulet.
Player: <rolls> "28."
GM: "Okay, you manage to sift through the embers and find a strange amulet."

Reversed:
GM: "Okay, make a Search check." The GM has a DC 15 in mind to find the amulet, and a DC 10 in order to find anything at all.
Player: <rolls> "28."
GM: "Wow, that's really good. Okay, you find a strange amulet, a staff of power, several vials of that cure you just happened to be searching for to save the villagers, and 99 platinum pieces."

Or:

Player: <rolls> "14."
GM: "Oooh, well. You find a couple of copper pieces lying around, a few semiprecious gemstones. Really nothing of much worth."

In other words, rather than having something simply there to be found and then finding it or not finding it, getting a good roll on your check retroactively determines what was there to be found in the first place. I'm not sure if I like the idea or not, but I think it's rather different from my usual experience, where you've just got a DC to meet. Anyone have any thoughts on this, and is this a particularly good or bad thing to do?

 

[Psion]

Well, I personally wouldn't do THAT, but I often link a reason WHY you succeeded or failed to such a roll, particularly an extreme roll. I mean, I wouldn't let it substitute for random treasure rolls, but say a PC fails a balance check... that might mean the weather has been moist and the beam he was treading on was a bit slick from algae growing on it.

 

[Tonguez]

In the hands of a good DM its a good thing s it means that numbers and good skill rolls actually mean something. Of course it has its dangers

 

[SweeneyTodd]

We do something like this. Heck, on some rolls, if the final result is high enough, I'll ask the player what their character found.

There's a game called Donjon that uses a similar technique -- you might enjoy checking it out.

 

[Crothian]

Wow, if we did this I'd take skill focus search, and other feats to max that skill out. Then just search the streets of town for those DC 28 staves of Power!!

 

[Nareau]

In a larger picture, I do this all the time. Someone on these very boards coined my favorite term for it--You're schroedingering the results.

See, Schroedinger postulated the whole "cat in the box is neither dead nor alive until we observe it" thing. In your case, what's hidden in the ashes isn't determined until it's observed (ie, the character searches).

I'd never do this for a search roll, as you propose. But I LOVE doing this with magic items. Find a sweet magic sword at 1st level? Sure, ok, it's magic. Swing a couple of times, it seems to be a +1 longsword. Go get it identified at 5th level? Guess what--it's actually a +1 flaming sword! Show it to an ancient dragon at 12th level? Well, he remembers the time a great hero used it to slay 1000 demons; if you partner it with its original scabbard, it becomes a +3 Holy flaming sword! And by the time you find that scabbard at 15th level, you discover that the spirit of the great hero has awakened in the blade, making it a +3 Holy Flaming Intelligent sword!

The reason I like doing that is it helps me a) control the magic items coming into the campaign, b) not feel like I have to "pass out" new treasure each session, c) allow a character to develop a real attachment to their cool items, instead of the standard, "Oh, you found a very slightly better sword? OK. Guess I'll sell this crappy +1 at the next town..."

But it's more or less the same technique. I also like doing it with NPC's. "Remember the crippled blacksmith from the first adventure? Well, it turns out he's the son of the BBEG!" Of course, he wasn't at the time...but now that you "observe" him, the reality in the game changes to accomodate it. When you do it right, it makes you look like a really smart DM who's had the whole campaign planned out from day 1.

Spider