Review of Monte's 3.5 Review...

[The Sigil]

Rather than being wordy as usual, I'll be quick...

Monte's revised review, wherein he gave more insights into the "good changes," struck me as a much fairer review.

I think the "revised review" does a much better job of being "fair" to 3.5e - and to Monte's original intent.

Monte's opinion hasn't changed, but the way he phrased it, and the way he focused it, has... which makes for a better review.

Thumbs up, Monte.

--The Sigil

 

[Henry]

Well, overall I think much too big a deal is being made out of Monte's thoughts on 3.5. Anyone who makes up their minds about this based on the review alone, either direction, gets what they deserve.

Adlon made a point in his last radio show that I am starting to agree with: Whether he likes it or not, Monte is becoming the "Gary Gygax" of modern RPG's. It's born out by the fact he was a co-designer of 3E, and by just how much importance people place on his words and opinions. Some people love his work and his opinions, some people can't stand his work and his opinions, but everyone seems to treat it with a measure of respect, even if indifferent to them.

Gary Gygax doesn't like 3e as much as he likes Lejendary Adventures - but I still respect his work, even as I'm gaming my little heart out with 3E.

 

[Belen]

IMO, Monte provides the first fair review of 3.5 that I have seen. Every other review out there seems to be written by 3.5 fanboys. It is quite pathetic to read the reviews of people who have not played with the rules. Monte's review is the only review that:

1) Tells the truth.
2) Has been looked at from a design/ playtest point of view

You're "review of the review" seems a bit out there to me. Monte is the first person that seems to have told the truth. We got a positive and negative aspects of the new rules.

Everyone seems to be focusing on his mythical "bias." However, he was NOT trying to influence people against buying 3.5. Instead, he was presenting the minority opinion that 3.5 may not be the sheeznit that so many people have bought into.

And he is educating us so that we can let our opinion be known if they try to shove another new edition with attendant splat books down the line.

I have no clue why the 3.5 fanboys are having such apoplectic fits. We got the truth for the first time.

Huzzah, Monte!

 

[satori01]

That is an intresting analogy Henry, though I'm not sure either Monte or Gary would agree.
One thing Monte and Gary were and are,(respectively) concerned about was the potential fragmentation of the D&D community.

It does concern me that with 3.5 we might very welll be returning to the old days of 1e where people used rules from basic, core advanced, Dragon, Unearthed Arcana, and the survival books, without any rhyme or reason resulting in campaigns that had variant core rules from game to game.

A persons 3.0 Ogre is not going to be the same as the 3.5 Ogre.
Confusion in terms can be a problem.

In another related issue, there always seems to be a segement of this board that believes that all companies are entitled to do whatever they want for money, and that all questions and concerns about their buisness practices are so much useless whinning.

Of course WOTC is a buisness, and of course they need to make profit. I think one can easily critique WOTC and Hasbro's management of the Brand, and their customers.

Creating a brand image of substandard overpriced products with little value will destroy any positive brand image,(see TSR 2e), I personaly feel that WOTC recent release list has been dodgy and my consumer confidence has been shaken. In part I am annoyed at books that are repackaging of prior released material, or are made obsolecent by 3.5. I am basing this off:

Savage Species:
nice book if there was to be no 3.5 monster manual with LA adjustments in it. This book is absolutely subsumed by 3.5 after about 6 months out).

Races of Faerun:
Abysmall book, I frankly regret buying this book at the severly discounted $15 I did. Some cool feats, some poorly designed feats, a couple of new races and lots of reprints from Savage Species and Forgotten Realms Manual, Do I need another reprinting of elvish Forgotten Realms history? Do I need a reprint of the Savage Species Centaur? $40 is not a fair price for some feats and a couple of races.

Ghostwalk:
I liked Ghostwalk for the alternate ghost rules, at least they were creative, but some more reprint issues concerning feats. The book felt bloated to me, as if it were meant to be a smaller cheaper book inflated to make the "Wotc hardcover mininum page count". Many people feel $40 is not worth the book.

Perceived dodgy products will kill sales for WOTC.

 

[Katowice]

As a Star Wars RPG'er, the funny thing to me is that I've heard all these negative comments before. Wizards put out the Star Wars RPG Revised Core Rulebook 18 months after the original book was released. There was a load of bellyaching prior to the release and now it has all but stopped. They did a bang-up job on that book and I'm sure that will be the case with the new 3.5 books.

 

[La Bete]

One of the interesting comments a lot of people are making relates to the difficulty of converting characters.

If your high-level character is going to be radically different under 3.5 than 3.0 - which is the case for some, and you are forced to change, then i think your problem is more with your DM than with the ruleset.


As for 3.5, I am very likely to use it. I dont know if I will convert my existing campaign. But should I convert, I will do something pretty radical. revolutionary even.

Just like when I started my main 3e game, I will use the rules as per the (erratad) book. Once I've played a bit, I'll see if anything irks me and I may make some house ruling.

Montes revised comments were interesting - I do wish he had put less emphasis on WOTC wanting our $$$. It did downer the tone a bit.

 

[Emirikol_Prime]

The portion referenced is a critique of WotC's business practices that is titled "a review of 3.5e."

If Monte wants to critique WotC's business practices, fine. But when he says he's trying to judge 3.5e on its own merits, he should focus on its merits...

This has to be highlighted. Its the very root of my problems with the review. Overall, I have to agree with most of the points, but in the end the intent colors the point too stonrgly for my tastes.

 

[coyote6]

[OT]

Originally posted by Emirikol_Del'Tessain

How many Emirikol's (or variations thereof) have we got, now?

Can we declare this a trend yet? Is it on its way to full-fledged "fad"? Can we expect a legion of Emirikols to bloom, a la the old Kwalish Legions?

Forget Monte's 3.5e essay, this is the important stuff!

 

[Azlan]

I don't know much about Monte Cook as a person, and I am neither a fan nor a detractor of his. (Myself, I am simply uninterested in his Arcana Unearthed.) But what I do know and respect about the man is that he was one of the lead designers of 3rd Edition D&D; and that he not only worked for WotC, but that he was integral within the company (for a while, at least).

So, if Monte Cook's review of the 3.5 core rulebooks says that more changes than necessary were made to the rules, and that the primary reason for these excessive changes was to make 3.0 obsolete and thus sell more rulebooks, then I think this is something that deserves consideration, coming from Monte Cook.

But who are you, Sigil, and why should I take into consideration your review of Monte's review, particularly the "it's all about the money" parts of Monte's review that you take issue with? Sure, I gather you're a publisher of D&D compatable materials. But so what? Were you a lead designer of 3E D&D itself and an integral employee of WotC as well?

Heck, if Eric Noah himself tried to discredit Monte's "it's all about the money" comments, I'd find myself wondering: Hmm... Eric may know an awful lot about 3E D&D, but what does he really know about the goings on inside WotC?

Of course, I'm not going to judge this matter solely on Monte Cook's comments, even if he was once a lead developer of 3E D&D and a former integral employee of WotC. But in my mind, his comments sure bear a lot more weight and credibility in this than does Sigil's or anyone else's here.

 

[talinthas]

dude, you did _not_ just question Eric Noah.

He's...ERIC NOAH!!!

I mean, the guy single handedly fueled the fire of third edition and brought gaming back to life. With both legs tied behind his back. Blindfolded. While holding a kitten and helping an old lady cross the street, thus preventing any cars from getting attacks of opportunity.

Eric Knows All.
Bow before him, as he is the d to your 20.