Review of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay

[Jonny Nexus]

I can guarantee you that had the rules been "derived" from GURPS or had the review been by Joe Nobody, then there would not be such an uproar.

Yet, compare a game to D&D, the game that the senseless masses play, and you get to sit back and watch the flamefest.

Well in so far as it applies to me, that isn't true. I don't play GURPS; I don't particularly like it. I do play a lot of 3rd Ed D&D, and like it a lot. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I think that 3rd Ed D&D was a brilliant piece of work, and I'm still deeply impressed with the degree to which its designers were able to totally overhaul and update the old D&D ruleset whilst still maintaining the feel of D&D.

But the second edition of WFRP - a game I'm also a huge admirer of - simply was not derived from 3rd Ed D&D. I felt it was dishonest for Dancy to say so, and given that he was one of the people behind 3rd Ed D&D, it seemed like he was trying to unfairly take the credit for an achievement that wasn't his.

That was entirely my beef. It wasn't elitism. It wasn't anti-D20ism. It wasn't about giving the "guy on top" a kicking (in fact, it could be argued that given Dancy's recent difficulties, the guys at Green Ronin are much more the "big guys" than he is).

Now I can't speak for everyone in this thread, but that's where I'm coming from.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I think the question is when the second edition of WFRP came out. Given that Green Ronin can pretty much be considered a d20 publisher, as in, their origins were involved in the d20 license, it seems that the 2nd edition of WFRP would have to be considered, at least, "instructed by" 3rd Ed D&D. Whether you think "derivative" is too strong a word is likely a personal judgment.

(And note, let's try to keep things civil, huh?)

 

[tetsujin28]

besides, following the RPG.net thread on the subject, one comes accross some peculiar views on the subject... like that on posts 121 (read the end of it) that would explain how the dimissions of Ryan from the GAMA board might have a lot to do with the reviews in question...
i think the link to that page is: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=211410&page=13&pp=10

There's nothing 'peculiar' about it. Dancey's behaviour towards Chris Pramas and Nicole Lindroos has been nothing short of reprehensible.

i wonder if Ryan can comment on these claims?

He'll just backpedal, as usual.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Ooh, I sense a thread-closing a-comin!

 

[scourger]

Well, now I kind of wish I hadn't given WFRP as a gift to a buddy who I am reasonably certain will never run it. All this information makes it more appealing.

I guess I'll have to wait for the Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay (WH40KRP)! That will be off the chain!

 

[Bobitron]

Wow. So much animosity. I've run into plenty of flak from the WHFRP crowd in the past, and have learned that many of them tend to be such rabid fans that any comparison to another system cause the sort of comments found after your review.

I'm with Shaman on this one, too; I have no idea who Ryan is and what his relationship to D&D is. But I think your review was pretty good, Ryan. Thanks for the link, and I appreciate you taking so much time to answer the many comments made here on EN World regarding something as simple as a review.

 

[Morrus]

Yep, I'm a d20 fan, and it was about Dancey being a class-A jerk.

Given the many warnings in this thread, you just earned yourself a week's ban.

I'm not going to close the thread, though. It's an interesting discussion. I think the best strategy is to just remove those who ignored the moderator requests for everyone to remain polite.

 

[Melkor]

Wow. So much animosity. I've run into plenty of flak from the WHFRP crowd in the past, and have learned that many of them tend to be such rabid fans that any comparison to another system cause the sort of comments found after your review.

Funny, I have noticed the same thing from the "D20 crowd" when D20 is compared to other systems (rabid defense, comments that lash out at anyone who disagrees, etc.). I guess it just goes with the territory when people are passionate about the subject:

"Mine is the best."
"No, mine is."
"No, mine is...and...and....you suck!"

Just for the record, I am a WFRP fan and a D20 fan.

 

[Jack Spencer Jr]

But the second edition of WFRP - a game I'm also a huge admirer of - simply was not derived from 3rd Ed D&D. I felt it was dishonest for Dancy to say so, and given that he was one of the people behind 3rd Ed D&D, it seemed like he was trying to unfairly take the credit for an achievement that wasn't his.

Actually, for me it felt more like I knew less about the game under review and more about the reviewer's preferences. This is not the makings of a good review. Not at all. Most disappointing, in fact.

Such a tempest in a teacup.

 

[Bobitron]

Funny, I have noticed the same thing from the D20 Crowd when D20 is compared to other systems (rabid defense, comments that lash out at anyone who disagrees, etc.). I guess it just goes with the territory when people are passionate about the subject:

"Mine is the best."
"No, mine is."
"No, mine is...and...and....you suck!"

Just for the record, I am a WFRP fan and a D20 fan.

You are probably right. It just seems that d20 bashing is popular, as it is the most popular system. I know this guy over at the Privateer Press forums who is a HUGE Iron Kingdoms fan, but makes a new thread every week about how he thinks the system sucks.

I own more game systems than I care to think about. I would say that d20 is my favorite, but I have bought every 2nd ed WHFRP book except for the new Armory, and play in 3 WH play-by-post games. I love the new system, and I do own a half-dozen of the first edition to compare it to.