Revised 3e Seminar: Stacking bonuses

[Piratecat]

If two people try to aid another while you're attacking a monster, for instance, their circumstance bonuses stack for a total of +4.

I like this change. Consistency is a good thing.

 

[Enkhidu]

Gee, they're going out of their way to make sure that fighter and wizard don't combine at all aren't they. The shield spell doesn't stack with a normal shield. Haste is nerfed. Monsters now get unbeatable SR and unhittable armor classes (unless you've a full attack bonus). What's the point of putting Spellsword in the DMG when the class combo it supports is suboptimal now and will be pointless under the new rules?

From the looks of it, a lot of the changes being made are ones that give 3e a more 1e feel. In this case, it's because 1e Shield didn't stack with anything except rings/cloaks of protection. Likewise with 1e Haste - 2x attacks, no extra spells. 1e Magic Resistance - high % of spells can't get through (up to 80 and 90% in some cases).

I have a feeling we'll see a lot of this kind of thing.

 

[Destil]

Circumstance bonuses stack unless they arise from essentially the same circumstance. That's why I love the things: the're the thinking DM's unnamed bonuses.

 

[Destil]

1e Magic Resistance - high % of spells can't get through (up to 80 and 90% in some cases).

This was one of the single best things fixed by the move to 3e IMHO, and I'd be quite annoyed if we see SR that's as effective as MR usted to be in general. This would put arcane spellcasters back to buffing and then casting tenser's transformation to be at all usefull...

 

[Enkhidu]

This was one of the single best things fixed by the move to 3e IMHO, and I'd be quite annoyed if we see SR that's as effective as MR usted to be in general. This would put arcane spellcasters back to buffing and then casting tenser's transformation to be at all usefull...

I'm not too pressed about SR being high, as long as they don't make it too high. About 50% SR (equal to spellcaster level) seems about right if you want to use the CR system...

 

[Seule]

Gee, they're going out of their way to make sure that fighter and wizard don't combine at all aren't they. The shield spell doesn't stack with a normal shield. Haste is nerfed. Monsters now get unbeatable SR and unhittable armor classes (unless you've a full attack bonus). What's the point of putting Spellsword in the DMG when the class combo it supports is suboptimal now and will be pointless under the new rules?

The shield spell doesn't stack with a normal shield... but how were you casting spells with a shield anyway? You do know you have to have a hand free? That's why the Bladesinger PrC mandates 1 longsword and the offhand free.

Haste is nerfed as you say, to be less useful to casters. It's just as useful to melee/caster hybrids. In essence, they made the archetype more useful, as suddenly they are the only ones who can give themselves that extra attack every round.

Monsters have DR that may be a little more difficult to bypass, but will be much much lower. Usually 5, sometimes 10, very occasionally 15.

Monster AC. Currently for many monsters it's a joke. Now you'll actually miss on your first attack occasionally. And oh look. Haste gives you that extra attack at your highest bonus, that you need to beat the AC.

Actually, I'd say the archetype is at least as viable as before, and we don't even know most of the changes yet. Prophesying doom and gloom months before the rules are released is premature, and (as I demonstrated) not even well thought out. Just wait and see is my advice. You may turn out to be right, but I'm not holding my breath.
Of course, I can't even count how high my Con would have to be to hold my breath until July...

--Seule

 

[CRGreathouse]

Of course, I can't even count how high my Con would have to be to hold my breath until July...

My rough estimate would be 1,071,366.

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a Constitution check (DC 10) every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1.

This would give you enough Con to last until mid-June, and you'd automatically succeed the checks until 3ER is released...

 

[Greatwyrm]

And with that, Ladies and Gentlemen, CRGreathouse wins this year's "I Have Too Much Time on My Hands" award!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The shield spell doesn't stack with a normal shield... but how were you casting spells with a shield anyway? You do know you have to have a hand free? That's why the Bladesinger PrC mandates 1 longsword and the offhand free.

Quite easily. It's an MEA to ready a shield. Cast Shield (or at higher levels, Haste then shield). Move and ready the shield as you go. Quickdraw a weapon if you weren't holding it already. Attack.

Haste is nerfed as you say, to be less useful to casters. It's just as useful to melee/caster hybrids. In essence, they made the archetype more useful, as suddenly they are the only ones who can give themselves that extra attack every round..

Not really. One of the many problems with the archetype is that spending more than one round buffing yourself in a fight usually means you're going to lose. Haste was what enabled a caster to put up Haste and Shield in one round.

Now if they put Rapid Strikes or something in the rulebook that will be making the archetype more useful. (As it takes a lower level spell slot). This version of Haste seems to pretty much reduce it to Rapid Strikes and makes them much less useful.

Monsters have DR that may be a little more difficult to bypass, but will be much much lower. Usually 5, sometimes 10, very occasionally 15.

Monster AC. Currently for many monsters it's a joke. Now you'll actually miss on your first attack occasionally. And oh look. Haste gives you that extra attack at your highest bonus, that you need to beat the AC.

If your first attack misses occasionally, your other attacks will miss always. (Not much point in a fighter having 4 attacks when only one even has a reasonable hope of hitting). And if you're not a full BAB class or a cleric who can cast Divine Might, there'll be little point in even trying unless you've got some odd magic combo running.

Actually, I'd say the archetype is at least as viable as before, and we don't even know most of the changes yet. Prophesying doom and gloom months before the rules are released is premature, and (as I demonstrated) not even well thought out. Just wait and see is my advice. You may turn out to be right, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm going to wait and see, but from what I've seen so far, most of the changes to the rules are negative steps as far as player characters and their ability to create varied and interesting characters/survive goes.

From the looks of things every wizard and cleric will now need Greater Spell Focus and Greater Spell Penetration to have a hope of effecting high CR monsters. Fighters will need multiple different enchanted weapons. Rogues will too but they wouldn't do the rogues any good because armor classes are being boosted through the roof. Etc. Etc.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Could someone clarify the bit about the Shield spell?

The FAQ currently lists Shield as providing a +7 cover bonus to AC for 50% of the battlefield, and negates magic missiles. So as currently written, it stacks with a shield.

Going to a shield bonus I understand (so the spell doesn't stack with a shield), but then the +7 bonus seems rather high -- unless it's restricted to only half the battlefield still.

My suspicion is that it will be like d20M shield, which is +4 to the whole battlefield -- but does anyone know?