Revised Challenge Ratings/Encounter Levels (pdf)

[Upper_Krust]

Hey seasong matey!

Hey Upper Krust, this is pretty minor, but...

Under 0. Ability Scores, an unrated CON is listed as +3 CR. On page 7, under 13. Type/Subtype, for the undead type, an unrated CON is listed as a +2.

DOH! I suppose it was a pipe dream thinking I would catch everything.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hound Revenant

Hi guys!

Okay, about the Hound Revenant...

Glad to see you guys sinking your teeth into the system.

Firstly, why did you factor the ability scores?

Othewise I'm getting CR 9.2 (9)

Meaning it should be a moderate challenge for a 9th-level party and a Difficult challenge for a 5th-level party (Or 4th-level if we were to start rounding everything down I suppose).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I just substituted Version 2 with Version 3 in the other thread.

Apologies to the 17 people who had already downloaded Version 2.

 

[seasong]

Re: Hound Revenant

Firstly, why did you factor the ability scores?

Because those are racial modifiers, in (0)? If that's not supposed to be added in, it wasn't very clear in the PDF . I haven't looked at version 3, yet, though.

Othewise I'm getting CR 9.2 (9)

The ability scores add +1. 10.9, minus 1, yields 9.9. That drops 0.1 off of the summon ability, so 9.8 (10), or (9) if we always round down.

 

[seasong]

Re: Re: Hound Revenant

Because those are racial modifiers, in (0)? If that's not supposed to be added in, it wasn't very clear in the PDF .

Never mind. I'm just illiterate or something.

Anubis, apologies if I was sharp on that point .

 

[xanatos]

Some small notes... I've just finished reading it once...

11.01 What does ['Half' = CR + 2] mean? Is the basic effect All or Nothing (so it has a save) or is it automamatic? (the same for Disease/Energy Drain)

11.09 and 11.14 Demilich Magic Immunity is +8, Golem's one is +2.5. Now... Golem and Demilich are immune to Su abilities (Dragon Breath, Meduse's watch etc.), Rakshasa (+4,5 CR) are not! And Adamantine Golems don't have spells that can affect them! It isn't clear if all these creatures can lower their Magic Immunity/Spell Immunity to receive healing and buff spells.

11.05 and 11.15 Perhaps you should put a note that a +1 to AC is valued 0,15 unless it's Natural! (there are so many names for the AC... Morale... Unnamed...)

Bye
Max

 

[Anabstercorian]

My PROOF that ability scores should NOT be counted is in characters that are Levels 1-3. This is, always was, and always will be the absolute proof. To estimate that a Level 1 character of ANY core race is anything but CR 1 is absurd, yet by counting ability scores, the system has us believe that a Level 1 character could potentially be as powerful as an ogre, which is ludicrous.

Any which way, sorry for bringing that up again, folks, but I had to refute this guy for his lackluster attempt at trying to make ME look like the one using numbers to break the system.

Actually, you have a good point, Anubis, now that you've put it forward in a less vitriolic fashion. However, I think that this one error of the system can be handwaved away with a footnote.

Although to be honest, I'd say a Ftr1 with 18's in all physical stats could very well be CR 2, so I'm not sure on that either.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Hound Revenant

Hi seasong mate!

Because those are racial modifiers, in (0)? If that's not supposed to be added in, it wasn't very clear in the PDF .

Well thats something to clarify for version 4, although I thought the paragraph that starts "Ability scores are generally not factored into a characters or creatures CR..." was adequate.

I haven't looked at version 3, yet, though.

Okay.

The ability scores add +1. 10.9, minus 1, yields 9.9. That drops 0.1 off of the summon ability, so 9.8 (10), or (9) if we always round down.

Don't factor ability scores...

0.0 1. No Class Levels
0.0 2. No Extra Feats
2.4 3. Hit Dice: 4 intelligent undead
0.0 4. No Integrated Spell Levels
0.2 5. Movement +20 ft
0.0 6. No Multiple Attacks
0.4 7. Natural Armor +4
0.0 8. No NPC Class Levels
1.5 9. Large Size
0.0 10. No Extra Skill Points
1.1 11.02. Breath Weapon (4d6 sonic, 40 ft cone, at will)
1.3 11.03. Create Spawn, 1d4 rounds, Hound Revenant*
0.4 11.13. Hardness 2/-
0.4 11.23. Turn resistance +8
0.0 12. No Templates
2.0 13. Undead Type
0.0 14. No Wealth

2.4 Hit Dice
0.2 (2.6) +20 movement
0.4 (3) Natural Armour
1.5 (4.5) Large size
1.0 (5.5) Breath Weapon +0.4 (base) +0.2 (14 energy) +0.4 (at will)
1.0 (6.5) Create Spawn
0.4 (6.9) Hardness
0.2 (7.1) Scent
0.2 (7.3) Trip
0.4 (7.7) Turn Resistance
2.0 (9.7) Intelligent Undead

I see the problem now, one of your lists doesn't include scent and trip, hence I was 0.4 out.

 

[Anubis]

Sorry to have to do this, but I have no choice.

You have SEVERLY overrated the Undead types. Mindless Undead are now CR +0.5 and Intelligent Undead are now CR +2! This is ridiculous! Don't believe me? Well take a look! Under these numbers:

Medium-Size Skeletons: CR 2/EL 5 (OBVIOUSLY WRONG)
Ghoul: CR 5/EL 10 (OBVIOUSLY WRONG)
Ghast: CR 7/EL 12 (OBVIOUSLY WRONG)

See the problem yet? I'm sorry, but characters of those levels and CRs could likely take on ARMIES of these creatures. Okay, that's an overstatement. These creatures still not a challenge to PCs of the levels the CR would indicate.

Back to the drawing board, man!

 

[seasong]

Re: Re: Re: Hound Revenant

Well thats something to clarify for version 4, although I thought the paragraph that starts "Ability scores are generally not factored into a characters or creatures CR..." was adequate.

No, no, it's fine as written. As I mentioned above, I'm apparently illiterate.