Revised Challenge Ratings/Encounter Levels (pdf)

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I'm saving this post position for the errata'ed version of the pdf...

...Edit: Except that I have just noticed you can't edit a post with attachments.

Go here for Version 2:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46913

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

Saving this post in anticipation of that revised Challenge Rating PDF.

*Sonofapreacherman watches the adjoining space, pressing refresh every other second.*

Edit: Whoever said a watched message board doesn't update?

 

[Clay_More]

Hey UK

I just noticed you were online as well, might catch you before you leave. I was wondering, have you finished on all of the Undead Templates yet? I am still itching to get a quick look, you shouldn't be holding out on your fans like that.

I wont, much to my dissappointment, be able of making it to Gencon. Im switching jobs this month and will miss out on two weeks of salary, so the money isn't there for it unfortunately. I really hate not getting to go, since now I actually have good time, since Gencon is in the two weeks im not working. I still havent attended any gamers conventions in my fourteen years of playing D&D... looks like it might end up being fifteen years... Well, Ill start saving up now for next year.

Im still itching to see Hellsing as well, was it on tape or digital format U had em?
So, whens the planned release date on IH, btw? I could really need to take a look at them undead temps..

 

[Blacksad]

Hello U_K,

An idea, instead of searching for a shiny new font (which are hard to read). Why not using plain font, and add graphic border or small graphic under titles (instead of underlining) ?

If you want a good exemple of how itnlooks like on PDF or print, Privater Press product use this.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I actually have the errata'ed CR/EL pdf virtually finished but for one minor point, vorpality. But I'll have that sorted later. I should have it ready for you all either late tonight (my time) or early tomorrow morning (again, my time 'natch).

Hey UK

Hey Clay_More mate!

I just noticed you were online as well, might catch you before you leave. I was wondering, have you finished on all of the Undead Templates yet? I am still itching to get a quick look, you shouldn't be holding out on your fans like that.

You mean the Undead Templates I have created for the IH rather than the core rulebook Templates outlined in the CR/EL pdf don't you? If so, not I don't have them typed up yet, but I do have all the details ready so its just a matter of typing them up.

If anyones curious there are 62 Monsters in the IH-Bestiary, with another 2 in the IH-Chronicle.

There are also 3 more lined up for the Psionics-centric web enhancement, but thats going to have to wait until I have the website up.

I wont, much to my dissappointment, be able of making it to Gencon.

Im switching jobs this month and will miss out on two weeks of salary, so the money isn't there for it unfortunately. I really hate not getting to go, since now I actually have good time, since Gencon is in the two weeks im not working. I still havent attended any gamers conventions in my fourteen years of playing D&D... looks like it might end up being fifteen years...

Ah well, sometimes the best laid plans go astray, I know that from experience.

Well, Ill start saving up now for next year.

Look forward to seeing you there!

Im still itching to see Hellsing as well,

After I get back from London you can give me your address if you like and I will post them to you.

was it on tape or digital format U had em?

They are on VCD. You shouldn't have any trouble with them.

So, whens the planned release date on IH, btw? I could really need to take a look at them undead temps..

It will be a while before the Bestiary section is available. I'm still dependant on WotC updating the SRD remember.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello U_K,

Heya Blacksad mate!

An idea, instead of searching for a shiny new font (which are hard to read).

Why not using plain font, and add graphic border or small graphic under titles (instead of underlining) ?

I have a new font in place (in the smallest subheading), its a bit boring (IMO) but I am looking forward to hearing what you all think tomorrow when I unveil the errata'ed version - which actually contains three more pages.

The new font is called AGaramond.

If you want a good exemple of how itnlooks like on PDF or print, Privater Press product use this.

I'll see if I can find any previews of their material online, thanks mate.

 

[Clay_More]

Well, it bothers me that I cant go. Ill send you my adress by mail as soon as I get one (moving back & forth at the moment, hostel for a few days, then friends place for another few days, then hostel again, the at my parents etc.)

Once you get the stats for the Undead Templates worked up, you off course know who might be best suited for the review
(Im not saying who, but its someone here with a Necromantic inclination).

I was thinking of doing some work on undead deities, but all the inspiration I can get is welcome. Im not used to working on stuff with a CR above 30

 

[Anubis]

Anubis-

I think that your argument is fundamentally flawed because the only pertinent argument I have witnessed (though I have not been following the entire saga) is that be rejigging ability scores to either overpower or underpower the said creature, U_K's system can be broken.

Well, quelle surprise!

Any system can be broken if the reductio ad absurdum approach is taken. The magic item creation system can be very heavily abused if this approach is taken, as can any 'point-based' system. Indeed, it is possible to argue (taking your line) that the point-buy ability generation system should not count ability scores. For example, a Fighter who takes Charisma 18, Intelligence 18 and the rest at 8 is clearly inferior to one who buys 16 Strength, 16 Constitution, 12 Dexterity and 10s in the mental abilities. Yet there is no complaint that the former should reflect a 'lower point' character simply because those ability points (or 'CR points') are spent injudiciously.

Indeed, your line of attack could be used on other aspects of what is (by and large- I have not come to this without raising a few concerns of my own!) a decent CR estimation system. For example, I could power-build an extremely powerful 10th level wizard, just as I could build an extremely weak 11th level wizard (by, for example, having a mere 9 Int ). Your logic would state, therefore, since a counter-example had been found to the maxim that 'in general, higher level=more powerful' than using levels as a component of CR is a nonsense. Do you see? Nearly any component of CR laid out by U_K in which there is some degree of discretion can be made to look foolish- but only by taking extreme examples, such as the Persona Diminutive.

Moreover, your core argument is very difficult to substantiate. Given that (hopefully) most DMs have some degree of judgment, a character such as the Personal Diminutive is unlikely to be built. Rather, if a DM wishes to generate a custom monster, it is clear that a monster with higher ability scores is more powerful than a monster with lower ones. The irrefutable case is one where every one of the monster's ability scores is higher than its opposite. Surely, then, the monster's CR should reflect this increased power.

Essentially, Anubis, your fault is taking an extreme example and then back-extrapolating to say that the system is faulty. Yet anyone can do this to any system. Any system will break down at some extreme. Some counter-example can be found if we delve far enough into the realms of absurdity. The Persona Diminutive does indeed break U_K's CR system. Yet that does not invalidate it for the mainstream.

Actually, what I did is called "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd". My post was a COUNTER to someone else's post, someone who used the rules to make a super-powerful creature that had a low CR/EL. I merely did the opposite. That was merely my proof that the ability score thing did NOT break the system.

My PROOF that ability scores should NOT be counted is in characters that are Levels 1-3. This is, always was, and always will be the absolute proof. To estimate that a Level 1 character of ANY core race is anything but CR 1 is absurd, yet by counting ability scores, the system has us believe that a Level 1 character could potentially be as powerful as an ogre, which is ludicrous.

Any which way, sorry for bringing that up again, folks, but I had to refute this guy for his lackluster attempt at trying to make ME look like the one using numbers to break the system.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

The new pdf (Version 2) is available here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46913

Let me know what you think.

Thanks.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Clay_More mate!

Well, it bothers me that I cant go.

Sometimes these things can't be helped, no point worrying about them.

send you my adress by mail as soon as I get one (moving back & forth at the moment, hostel for a few days, then friends place for another few days, then hostel again, the at my parents etc.)

Sure, whenever your ready.

Once you get the stats for the Undead Templates worked up, you off course know who might be best suited for the review
(Im not saying who, but its someone here with a Necromantic inclination).

I can't think who you mean?

I was thinking of doing some work on undead deities, but all the inspiration I can get is welcome. Im not used to working on stuff with a CR above 30

Well if I can help I'd be happy to...