Revised Challenge Ratings/Encounter Levels (pdf)

[seasong]

Part of the problem is treating NPCs as monsters, instead of as a rival group. If a party of 4 level 1 PCs encountered an enemy party of 4 level 1 PCs, would the enemy be EL 5, while the party was PEL 1? That kind of forces a mental disconnect for me.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi seasong mate!

Part of the problem is treating NPCs as monsters, instead of as a rival group. If a party of 4 level 1 PCs encountered an enemy party of 4 level 1 PCs, would the enemy be EL 5, while the party was PEL 1? That kind of forces a mental disconnect for me.

This is all core rulebook stuff you are addressing here.

I simply tidied it up and gave it a name: PEL.

However, I think something may have just clicked in the back of my mind, Sonofapreachermans solution may be viable...I'll get back to you all later.

 

[kreynolds]

Upper_Krust,

Got a question for ya'. With DR being +0.25 for every 5 points of damage reduced, and +0.25 per enhancement bonus required to bypass it, what kind of modifier would you assign to barbarian-type DR? +1, +2? Maybe higher?

Damn fine work, by the way.

EDIT: Nevermind. I found it (hardness).

 

[kreynolds]

Another question. With Energy (insert type here) Resistance 10 being CR +1 (+0.1 / 10 points of energy), and outright immunity to a single energy type being CR +1, do you effectively consider any kind of energy resistance above 10 to be immunity? That doesn't leave much breathing room, does it?

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

Hello kreynolds.

I believe that barbarian-like damage reduction would fall under the auspices of Hardness (+0.2 CR per point).

Upper_Krust will correct me if I'm wrong. Still, it does need to be stated clearly somewhere.

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

The current rules do seem to inflate CR slightly too much at low levels, especially 1st-level.

Not sure as to your solution, that might backfire at higher levels.

I'll have a think about it, I am sure there is a simple solution.

Here's another thought. I'm looking at Appendix Table 1–1A and what jumps out right away is the way the EL values jump so drastically. Perhaps the problem can be solved there as well. Was there any rhyme or reason to those values? I'm sure they're are, but I can't find the pattern.

It jumps 4 points, then 2 points, then 2 points, then advances 1 point at a time.

What if it jumped up by two points instead? Like this...

CR - EL
1 -- 1
2 -- 3
3 -- 5
4 -- 7
5 -- 8
6 -- 9
7 -- 10
etc. etc.

Edit: Using the 1st-level party of four and the two 2nd level fighter hobgoblins again, the encounter can only net 1200 XP for the characters; 300 XP each. That cuts the XP reward in half. Especially for the solitary arcane spellcaster.

Now if you use my suggestion (of calculating PEL as EL) then it becomes a PEL 5 versus EL 5 encounter (worth 300 XP; 75 XP each).

As always ... tell me what you think. So far I think one or both solutions can potentially work.

 

[seasong]

Another possibility, just to throw this out there, is that the disproportionate ELs at 1st and 2nd level are a good thing, because it reduces the "real challenge" at the lowest, character-building levels.

 

[Knight Otu]

Another question. With Energy (insert type here) Resistance 10 being CR +1 (+0.1 / 10 points of energy), ...

I think you mean resistance 100.

Interestingly, I somewhat used that idea in my planar rulers template...

Now if only could get version 3 downloaded...

 

[kreynolds]

I think you mean resistance 100.

Oh...yeah...crap.

 

[Anubis]

Here's another thought. I'm looking at Appendix Table 1–1A and what jumps out right away is the way the EL values jump so drastically. Perhaps the problem can be solved there as well. Was there any rhyme or reason to those values? I'm sure they're are, but I can't find the pattern.

It jumps 4 points, then 2 points, then 2 points, then advances 1 point at a time.

What if it jumped up by two points instead? Like this...

CR - EL
1 -- 1
2 -- 3
3 -- 5
4 -- 7
5 -- 8
6 -- 9
7 -- 10
etc. etc.

Edit: Using the 1st-level party of four and the two 2nd level fighter hobgoblins again, the encounter can only net 1200 XP for the characters; 300 XP each. That cuts the XP reward in half. Especially for the solitary arcane spellcaster.

Now if you use my suggestion (of calculating PEL as EL) then it becomes a PEL 5 versus EL 5 encounter (worth 300 XP; 75 XP each).

As always ... tell me what you think. So far I think one or both solutions can potentially work.

AHHHHHHH! DON'T ASK!! IT TOOK HIM THREE HOURS TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME!!!

(By the way, THAT is shouting, hahaha!)

Seriously, though, I am very mathematically minded, and the theory as a whole made my head spin until I crunched the numbers all the way up to Level 1,000,000. Let's just say it's pretty damn complicated and makes no sense unless you actually put yourself in the mind of UK. I didn't like it at first, either, and brought up the same points. I shut up about it after he smashed me with the formula and hammered it into my head.

Here it is in a nutshell:

Level*2 ~= XP*4
Level = CR
XP*4 = EL+4

Thus:

CR*2 ~= EL+4

I never thought it would work myself, but if you calculate up high enough, you will find that doubling level NEVER needs more than four times the XP, and since you get four times the XP from EL+4, that equates with CR*2.

Like I said, it's complicated, but trust me, IT WORKS. I was amazed, but it works!