Revised DR

[IceBear]

Well, I've heard the argument advanced that players will be okay under the new DR rules even without a golf bag, since DR values are being lowered. I was pointing out that that's not true. If that's not the argument you were making, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Nope, I was just asking for AuraSeer's input on the post he made without reading all the backstory in this thread (I left on page 2 or 3 ) I was hoping that maybe he had a better way of dealing with DR that he might share.

IceBear

 

[AuraSeer]

But AuraSeer didn't like that option - which was why I asked what he thought the correct option was (and I think what he's saying is keep the right side of the DR slash the same, but lower the value on the left, so DR 30/+3 becomes DR 10/+3 or something similar - which I like too.)

Yes, exactly. The revision will apparently make two independent changes to DR, one of which appears to be pointless.

The first change is that they are lowering DR values across the board. The current leak says that only a few of the biggest nasties, like the pit fiend, will go as high as DR 15/something. This is good IMO, because it makes monsters far less likely to be invulnerable. By the time the PCs should be facing monsters of that power, the meleers should be able to get past the DR by brute force. They'll be less effective, but not entirely useless. (You might call this "option 5" in my scenario above; the rule change will remove the great majority of places where that situation could come up.)

After that change has been made, I think DR works fine.

Then the designers make a second change, the whole "special materials" thing. This is what bugs me; DR is already fixed by this point, and these rules don't fix it any better, so I fail to see any reason they included special materials in the first place.

(Some folks complain is that GMW makes it too easy to bypass DR. I'd argue that this is an issue with the spell, not with the DR rules.)

 

[Shalewind]

If they do start reissueing revised versions of all of these I don't want to hear any complaints from those who are praising 3.5 now.

Whoa, there Brown. You seem to have a lot of anger over this whole revision = buy new books thing. I'm not trolling for an argument here. I just believe the whole spirit of the 3.5 rules was to improve the system, not create more revenue by re-releasing all 12-20 core products that have come before it.

As to what wizards says and then doesn't do??? The whole master's tools issue and pushing back release dates in a totally different animal than talking about the motives and speculated plans. Release dates are always variable, as is any computer product. WoTC has regularly maintained both an Errata and FAQ and SRD with a signifigant ammount of speed given their staff (and guys Hasbro is the real money behind the scenes, budget cuts and staff cuts at WoTC come from higher up, IMO).

So when people like Anthony Valterra and Andy Collins take the time to respond to this board and say they are attempting to do no harm and have no plans for republishing and that is shouldn't be neccessary... All I have to say, I believe they aren't lying.

The PHB, DMG, and MM are all core products, of course they will be reprinted. As for the BoVD and MotP, a web enhancement can easily fix the converstion issues (I would think) for those products, the few that they will have. MMII, a bit more of a problem yes... Reprint? Probably not. They'll probably either release a conversion guide or a quick web thingy. (Is all this speculation, yes? But then again, I trust what they say... )

I'm not saying I like all the changes. I just disagree with decrying WoTC as villanous and ONLY trying to make money with the changes. And to making comments (veiled as they are) that they are trying to screw me out of my money.

Call me a WoTC fanboy or supporter or whatever. I've been too statisfied with their work so far to be so negative. But, as I said before, I'm an optimist by nature.

 

[Shalewind]

Graaa! I hate double posts!

 

[IceBear]

Yes, exactly. The revision will apparently make two independent changes to DR, one of which appears to be pointless.

The first change is that they are lowering DR values across the board. The current leak says that only a few of the biggest nasties, like the pit fiend, will go as high as DR 15/something. This is good IMO, because it makes monsters far less likely to be invulnerable. By the time the PCs should be facing monsters of that power, the meleers should be able to get past the DR by brute force. They'll be less effective, but not entirely useless. (You might call this "option 5" in my scenario above; the rule change will remove the great majority of places where that situation could come up.)

After that change has been made, I think DR works fine.

Then the designers make a second change, the whole "special materials" thing. This is what bugs me; DR is already fixed by this point, and these rules don't fix it any better, so I fail to see any reason they included special materials in the first place.

(Some folks complain is that GMW makes it too easy to bypass DR. I'd argue that this is an issue with the spell, not with the DR rules.)

Well, I have a house rule that GMW doesn't count for purposes of bypassing DR and sundering, so that takes care of that problem.

As for the 3.5 DR, I think what I'll probably do (that opinion could change once it's released) is to use the DR from the 3.5, but to substitute the material required to overcome the DR with the old value from the original MM (except for stuff like skeletons with DR 5/blunt which I like). I do like the flavor idea of the different materials, but I'd rather have a unique monster show up from time to time that needed a special material to defeat it (with the quest to obtain said weapon being part of the adventure) than to require the PC to carry around golfbags of weapons.

IceBear

 

[Surefoot]

Im all for the new DR system. As it was it wasn't any good. This is a good change because it lowers all the damage resistance across the board, giving a party without the right tools still a fighting chance. Or more of a fighting chance than they had in the first place.

But I also like the haste revision. And i play a spellcaster!

 

[Andion Isurand]

I'll say again, that I like the new DR.

By succeeding at knowledge checks, PCs can 'remember' what materials damage what monsters...

Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (Nature) can provide some good answers.

...and this will provide Bards with another opportunity to step forward and tell the rest of the party something useful by using Bardic Knowledge.

Now, combat classes can rely on their wits by picking the right masterwork weapon, rather than having to rely on uber-powerful magic weapons and GMW to overcome DR. Especially since the amount of damage reduced by DR has been decreased overall.

*******

AS for the new haste spell, I feel that they should reduce the ""extra partial action"" to an ""extra move-equivalent action""....

that way, Fighters can move thier speed and still make a full attack....

and Sorcerers can move thier speed and cast a metamagic spell that takes 1 round.... etc. etc.

 

[Surefoot]

GMW still is good because it penetrates by 5 points the damage resistance of every monster!

As for haste, if spellcasters can't cast 2 spells, fighter shouldn't get a full attack action anymore if they stand 'in reach', so to speak. but that's a totally other discussion.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Now being a vampire or lycanthrope hunter will actually mean something. Before you could just carry a single high plus weapon, but now you will truly have to come prepared.

Same thing with demon and devil hunters. Pretty awsome in my opinion.

 

[Petrosian]

Re: Re

Now being a vampire or lycanthrope hunter will actually mean something. Before you could just carry a single high plus weapon, but now you will truly have to come prepared.

Same thing with demon and devil hunters. Pretty awsome in my opinion.

Yes it will mean something. it will mean you, lkike every other intelligent fighter, spend time researching monsters and buying lots of exotic weapons for your magical haversack.

Just like most fantasy heroes of myth, legend, fiction and cinema we have read of for all these years