Revised monk

[Sylrae]

lol. that's what it is. divide by two and round.

The reason I didn't get the DR the same way, is because if I did, you would round up twice, or round down twice, resulting in jumpy values, and in some cases having more of a total (AC+DR) than Tai Chi.

Shall I show you unrounded values?

The whole reason behind the subtraction thing, is that this way, when you round up for AC, then you Round Down for DR.

if you want a table like this samns rounding, then I'd have to adjust the fractions, but you'd end up with roughly the same table..

 

[Sylrae]

Here is a table with all rounded down numbers. (Except for the weirdness that is HunGar). I explained the DR differently (though it will give the same result as how I explained it with subtraction before) Hun Gar AC is Tai Chi/2 AlwaysRound up (before you used to do the rounding like you would in real math), and Hun Gar DR is Tai Chi/2 Always round down.

For comparisons sake, here is the old table, designed with the same Max and Min values, but using standard rounding of .5+ you round up and less rounds down

They're almost the same, with the Round down table always being a level behind in progression until level 18, at which point it catches up.

I'm not sure which method of rounding should be used. I believe BAB uses the round down method. I know normally standard rounding (instead of rounding everything down) is used for just about everything.

Edit: Design Note - both tables were designed around the numbers hence the less thatn nice fractions. goals: lowest value 3, final iincrease at level 20, N. Shaolin and Bagua have final values 2 higher, and 2 lower, respectively. using normal rounding Taichi matched this perfectly and I based the others aroun that. Using all round downs, tai chi is ALMOST 10 (9.6~), but it rounded down. so I bumped up all the fractions by .25/12, and the progression worked better.

 

[Kerrick]

I'm not sure which method of rounding should be used. I believe BAB uses the round down method. I know normally standard rounding (instead of rounding everything down) is used for just about everything.

D&D standard is always round down.

Edit: Design Note - both tables were designed around the numbers hence the less thatn nice fractions. goals: lowest value 3, final iincrease at level 20, N. Shaolin and Bagua have final values 2 higher, and 2 lower, respectively. using normal rounding Taichi matched this perfectly and I based the others aroun that. Using all round downs, tai chi is ALMOST 10 (9.6~), but it rounded down. so I bumped up all the fractions by .25/12, and the progression worked better.

I wonder if I can tie this to the unarmed damage progression somehow. See, my only major opposition to this idea is that it's on a chart. Charts = more space, and this thing is already sitting at just over 7 pages in Arial 9 pt. The unarmed damage is already on its own little chart, and I've got enough room for AC bonus; I could play around with unarmed damage a bit too (2d10 at 20th level is a bit much, IMO).

As far as other things... I've decided to ditch the Heaven Style entirely and just make it into a PrC. It ended up being about striking nerves and pressure points, but it didn't really fit with the others, and I think 4 styles is enough anyway. The style abilities will likewise probably go away too - I only added them to have something at 3rd level, and I've already got evasion there. Most of the Su abilities are gone, moved to future PrCs (they'll focus more fully on the styles and tapping into elemental power, and will grant more Su abilities); unfortunately, this pretty well gutted the Sun style and most of the upper-level abilities for the other styles.

I'd like to put in Su abilities for Grandmaster rank at least, possibly Master if something fits - nothing over the top, but something semi-mystical, possibly using ki. Hindu fakirs can do things that seem supernatural, but are well within the bounds of human ability, so it stands to reason that a high-level monk could do the same.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Been away a while, so...

1) You might want to look at the Sohei's Ki-Frenzy instead of Rage.

I don't have OA (that IS from OA, right?).

Yep.

With +2 Str & Dex, +10'Spd (-2Str & Dex afterwards), its similar to Rage except the PC has no AC penalty and can still FoB...but it doesn't boost in potency over time and there are no feats that increase the #/day you can Frenzy. Because it doesn't boost Con, the duration will be slightly less and there are no bonus HP, but your AC will be higher.

2) You might want to give the class a wider variety of "monk weapons," either by virtue of looking up the various Feats that add a particular weapon to a PC's list of monk weapons, or by giving them a little cafeteria list to choose from at 1st level to simulate the weapon choices of various schools of martial arts.

That's interesting. I like that. A martial arts style should have more than one weapon associated with it. Do you mind if I yoink it?

If you haven't done so already, feel absolutely free to yoink the variable weapons thing. Its become my standard 3.X Monk/Martial Artist HR for a while now.

You'll notice you can't quite replicate the Monk's list with this rule- the quarterstaff wouldn't be selectable except under the last option.

This is because I forgot the last part of the rule- you can always trade down when selecting weapons for the martial artist's "style"- exotic to martial or simple, martial to simple.

In addition, I also let players burn a feat to add an additional category of martial arts weapons. IOW,

 

[Sylrae]

D&D standard is always round down.

OK. use the last setup then.

I wonder if I can tie this to the unarmed damage progression somehow. See, my only major opposition to this idea is that it's on a chart. Charts = more space, and this thing is already sitting at just over 7 pages in Arial 9 pt. The unarmed damage is already on its own little chart, and I've got enough room for AC bonus; I could play around with unarmed damage a bit too (2d10 at 20th level is a bit much, IMO).

The Tables I put here are just for illustration. you could just as easily just give the formula to calculated the AC instead. like Tai Chi:3+(4.25/12 per level) AC Bonus. See? much smaller than a table. I don't think it matters if it takes a bunch of pages. With how the schools work and how different they are, its actually like having 4 similar but distinct martial artist classes. that is part of what makes it better than the default. A default class takes 2-4 pages. this takes 7+, that sounds reasonable to me.

As far as other things... I've decided to ditch the Heaven Style entirely and just make it into a PrC. The style abilities will likewise probably go away too - I only added them to have something at 3rd level, and I've already got evasion there. Most of the Su abilities are gone, moved to future PrCs (they'll focus more fully on the styles and tapping into elemental power, and will grant more Su abilities); unfortunately, this pretty well gutted the Sun style and most of the upper-level abilities for the other styles.

I think ditching the elemental attacks is a good idea. Heaven style would make a good PrC, but it would also make for an interesting new concept. You could have a handful of monk abilitied that any monk could take, in place of the school one for their level. just an idea.

I'd like to put in Su abilities for Grandmaster rank at least, possibly Master if something fits - nothing over the top, but something semi-mystical, possibly using ki. Hindu fakirs can do things that seem supernatural, but are well within the bounds of human ability, so it stands to reason that a high-level monk could do the same.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Like aspect of the wind, and cloudwalk. stuff like running up or along walls, punching through solid objects way harder than a fist, these are the types of wicked things I imagine a monk doing. Catching a blade thats being sung at you with your hands or with a sai, sundering a weapn with your bare hands, diverting your opponent's attack and making his attack cause him harm, those types of things.

 

[Kerrick]

If you haven't done so already, feel absolutely free to yoink the variable weapons thing. Its become my standard 3.X Monk/Martial Artist HR for a while now.

Sweet, thanks.

This is because I forgot the last part of the rule- you can always trade down when selecting weapons for the martial artist's "style"- exotic to martial or simple, martial to simple.

Makes sense. I hadn't really noticed, but thanks.

With +2 Str & Dex, +10'Spd (-2Str & Dex afterwards), its similar to Rage except the PC has no AC penalty and can still FoB...but it doesn't boost in potency over time and there are no feats that increase the #/day you can Frenzy. Because it doesn't boost Con, the duration will be slightly less and there are no bonus HP, but your AC will be higher.

Coolio. The Sun Style needs that, what with the -2 they get. I have no problem with a lack of increased Con - Sun Style is all about dealing damage, not buffing yourself up like the hulk.

The Tables I put here are just for illustration. you could just as easily just give the formula to calculated the AC instead. like Tai Chi:3+(4.25/12 per level) AC Bonus. See? much smaller than a table.

Yeah... who's actually going to calculate that every time they get a new level? That's why we have tables. The easiest way to do it would just be to give everyone 3 + 1/3 level, then subtract 2 for Sun Style and add 2 for Wind. I did a comparison in Excel, using 1 + 1/3 level for Sun and 5 + 1/3 level for Wind; the end numbers are exactly the same as yours (+8 and +12), but the progressions are slightly different. I'm fine with that, really - a couple lines vs. a huge chart.

I think ditching the elemental attacks is a good idea. Heaven style would make a good PrC, but it would also make for an interesting new concept. You could have a handful of monk abilitied that any monk could take, in place of the school one for their level. just an idea.

Duh. *slaps forehead* I think I'd mentioned that to my friend when I was bouncing ideas around - once I dropped all the energy resistance and moved a few other things around, I ended up with a bunch of empty slots, and I wanted to find some generic monk abilities to fill them. These would be perfect - I could put quivering palm back into the lineup, albeit in a more balanced form.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Like aspect of the wind, and cloudwalk. stuff like running up or along walls, punching through solid objects way harder than a fist, these are the types of wicked things I imagine a monk doing. Catching a blade thats being sung at you with your hands or with a sai, sundering a weapn with your bare hands, diverting your opponent's attack and making his attack cause him harm, those types of things.

I haven't had the time to watch more episodes of Avatar lately... I'm only halfway through the second season. I'll bet I can get some good ideas there.

 

[Sylrae]

the table wouldn't be a considerably different size, you know. its still 4 columns and 20 rows. even if you manage to ditch a couple rows, I can't imagine it making that big a difference for space.

and i know the end numbers are the same, but your idea is going to make wind be more than a bit better at low levels, and sun will be more than a bit worse. that is, unless you frontload those schools and give better abilities at the beginning than you should.

That's why I decided the fractions would be a good idea.

 

[Knightfall]

Great thread. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished layout.

I must agree. This is a great thread; however, I've only skimmed it so far. Keep up the good work all.

 

[Kerrick]

and i know the end numbers are the same, but your idea is going to make wind be more than a bit better at low levels, and sun will be more than a bit worse. that is, unless you frontload those schools and give better abilities at the beginning than you should.

Yeah, you're right. Sun would start off at 1+Dex; assuming 16 Cha and 14 Dex, that'd be 13 AC. Wind would get 5+Dex, which is a good deal better.

I was thinking about the chart thing, and I realized that if I put this thing in double-column format, the chart would take up roughly half as much space. I always work in single-column (read: full-page) format, so it didn't really occur to me. So, I'll just add the chart.

This is a great thread; however, I've only skimmed it so far. Keep up the good work all.

Thanks, guys. I'm currently tearing my hair out moving things around and trying to think up abilities for everything, but when this thing is done, I'll do up a nice pdf and post it for everyone.

 

[Sylrae]

ah. yeah, 2 columsn is totally the way to go. i put all or my D&D stuff in 2 column format. it really does take up just a little more than half the space usually.