Revised Samurai Core Class

[trav_laney]

I may be wrong, but I think that when the bonus is already +6, for a Samurai it is much better to use Focused Strike ALL THE TIME, even with the failure chance (unless he's facing lots of really weak opponents that he needs to dispose with multiple attacks, but in that case he can still use Focused Strike + Cleave).

The Focused Strike ability is balanced like this: a Samurai only gets to use it on a single attack roll against a chosen opponent. This means he cannot use it with the Full Attack option, and Cleave doesn't get the bonus since it does not affect the chosen opponent.

Also, since the benefit of the Focused Strike is to the attack roll only (and not to damage), a high-level samurai would be better off using a full-attack option against easier-to-hit opponents. The damage from that one blow would be quite small compared to the damage he could do with three or four attacks. At high levels, Focused Strike would be reserved for opponents with wickedly-high armor classes that otherwise couldn't be damaged.

I am kicking around the idea of getting rid of Damage Reduction...you aren't the only one to suggest it. The more I think about it, the less applicable I think it is to this class.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[trav_laney]

I have never seen TSR/WotC publish a samurai that was comparable to the real or legendary ones, except maybe for the American interpretation.

Then you understand what I am trying to do here. Thanks for your book recommendations; I am a little (lot!) busy at the moment to dig through new books, but maybe I'll check them out over spring break when the semester ends.

 

[airwalkrr]

I like this much better than the CW samurai. Good job.

 

[Li Shenron]

The Focused Strike ability is balanced like this: a Samurai only gets to use it on a single attack roll against a chosen opponent. This means he cannot use it with the Full Attack option, and Cleave doesn't get the bonus since it does not affect the chosen opponent.

Also, since the benefit of the Focused Strike is to the attack roll only (and not to damage), a high-level samurai would be better off using a full-attack option against easier-to-hit opponents. The damage from that one blow would be quite small compared to the damage he could do with three or four attacks. At high levels, Focused Strike would be reserved for opponents with wickedly-high armor classes that otherwise couldn't be damaged.

I'm not convinced because IMXP when a character has 3-4 attacks per round, on the average he hits 1-2 times, and rolls the other attacks only in hope for a natural 20. A +6 bonus is IMHO better than two extra attacks at -5 and -10, so IMO it is almost always more convenient to use this ability every round, unless you often use encounters with creatures of such lower CR that you can kill in one blow.

BTW, your first post did mention that the bonus was to damage as well...

But anyway I'm just trying to think about it, as I said you have to playtest it at high levels. If the player ends up using this ability almost every round (not counting when he needs to move or do things other than attacking) then it is too good.

 

[trav_laney]

BTW, your first post did mention that the bonus was to damage as well...

Gaa! You are right; I forgot that I hadn't changed it in the previous post. I am working off of my hardcopy here...sorry about that.

I am trying to rework Focused Strike into a satisfactory format...my intention was to mimic the ranger's Favored Enemy ability but require Concentration checks instead of restricting it to particular monster types. But it seems to be the major power-bug in this class (there are others, but this one is getting the most attention in this forum. ) So right now, I have three ideas on the table for balancing the Focused Strike ability:

1) Smite Foe. Works like the paladin's Smite Evil ability, except it works against creatures of any alignment (must be subject to critical hits, though).

2) Focused Strike as written above, except bonus does not apply to damage. Makes it easy for samurai to hit creatures with high armor classes, but requires a full-round action and a successful Concentration check. (This is the version I am currently testing.)

3) Focused Strike as written above, including bonus to damage as well as attack, but remove the Concentration check requirement and assign a daily use limit. I'm thinking 3 + Con modifier, as Xcorvis suggested.

As for the other abilities, they have already been reworked in my working copy based on the recommendations from Smootrk and Comrade Raoul (thanks guys.) I will put up the completely-overhauled Version 3 as soon as I get this pesky power bug squashed. In the meantime, which of these three solutions would you use to balance Focused Strike?

 

[Celebrim]

In 4th Edition, the new Samurai will look like this:

Courtly Warrior [Trait, Background]
You were educated in a refined warrior culture to be elegant in and out of battle
Benefit: Whenever you take a level in fighter, you may treat Knowledge [Heraldry and Nobility], Diplomacy, and Perform as class skills.

IMHO bushidoh is not what differentiates the samurai from the knight. Rather it is that the samurai has already died. The ideal European knight was inspired by love and excelled by love. The samurai believed that thought and action should be one and the same. That in victory, you should tighten your helmet-strap. But most importantly to cultivate the Buddhist detachment, to die of this life. For if you are already dead, you care not for your life anymore.

This is a very sage observation in my opinion, but there is very little here that couldn't be modeled with flavor and alignment. The idealized European knight was 'lawful good' - though in practice real world knights rarely met this ideal. The idealized Samurii was closer to 'lawful neutral', though in practice they rarely met this ideal either. But it is nonetheless true that few warrior cultures have ever managed to so thoroughly subsume the self in favor of the community as the Japanese/samurai/bushid. The Meiji transformation and percentage of thier national resources that they committed to WWII imply a level of what D&D calls 'lawfulness' seldom if ever matched in world culture.

But I don't see how that requires some special class for individuals, or if it does, then a prestige class if that's your cup of tea.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

IBut I don't see how that requires some special class for individuals, or if it does, then a prestige class if that's your cup of tea.

I'm not convinced that we need a samurai core class in the first place but I do think that a paragon samurai is significantly different from a paladin. In other words, what does a Japanese paladin look like? The legendary sword-saints possessed supernatural abilities different from a paladin. No warhorse, no laying on hands, or other Judaeo-Christian-Islamic abilities (although immunity to fear is appropriate). Rather, their supernatural abilities have roots in Zen Buddhism. For example, I would give a sword-saint (samurai paragon) the Displacement and Blink abilities. This follows the uniquely Japanese concept of there/not there. I'd also give the prestige class a d12 for hit points reflecting their resistance to pain (manifested as a detachment) rather than giving them DR.

Otherwise I believe that most of the traditional martial arts can be modeled with the existing feats (d20 & d20 Modern). For example, kenjutsu can be desribed as weapon focus, weapon specialisation, improved critical, etc.

On a related note, I believe that the katana should be treated as a scimitar wielded with both hands. A daitachi would be treated as a bastard sword, and a nodachi as a greatsword.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm not convinced that we need a samurai core class in the first place but I do think that a paragon samurai is significantly different from a paladin.

Ahhh... well you see, I'm not convinced that we need a paladin core class. So that's where we probably are getting mixed up. I do think we need some sort of divine demi-caster, but if one is to be implemented along the lines of a Paladin, it would probably be better looking like Book of the Righteous's 'Holy Warrior', which would let us make 'sword-saints' of any heritage we wanted to immulate just by adding a couple of feat sized class options to the class description.

In other words, what does a Japanese paladin look like? The legendary sword-saints possessed supernatural abilities different from a paladin. No warhorse, no laying on hands, or other Judaeo-Christian-Islamic abilities (although immunity to fear is appropriate). Rather, their supernatural abilities have roots in Zen Buddhism. For example, I would give a sword-saint (samurai paragon) the Displacement and Blink abilities. This follows the uniquely Japanese concept of there/not there. I'd also give the prestige class a d12 for hit points reflecting their resistance to pain (manifested as a detachment) rather than giving them DR.

I'm not sure any of those abilities are reflected in Japanese tradition. I can't recall teleportation being part of being a Kensei. Running on water, flying, falling great distances without harm, inhumanly fast speed, sure, I can buy that. Those are part of eastern and Japanese traditions. Then again, you should probably already be able to think of a class which is more like a Kensei than a Paladin.

I'm just saying if the classes and feats we had were well designed, we'd feel much less need for 80 or so core classes and hundreds of prestige classes.

Otherwise I believe that most of the traditional martial arts can be modeled with the existing feats (d20 & d20 Modern). For example, kenjutsu can be desribed as weapon focus, weapon specialisation, improved critical, etc.

Sure. That's what I'm saying.

On a related note, I believe that the katana should be treated as a scimitar wielded with both hands. A daitachi would be treated as a bastard sword, and a nodachi as a greatsword.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Seeten]

Now that Bo9S is out, and seems in flavour for a samurai, should we not revisit this whole process by using the maneuver system, perhaps?

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

I'm not sure any of those abilities are reflected in Japanese tradition. I can't recall teleportation being part of being a Kensei. Running on water, flying, falling great distances without harm, inhumanly fast speed, sure, I can buy that. Those are part of eastern and Japanese traditions.

Not teleportation, but the appearance of being in one place when not there. That is the paradox of neither being there nor not being there. Another way to look at it is as a mastery of the illusion that we unenlightened beings call reality. This can be modeled with some kind of supernatural dodge, initiative, and no. of attacks. It can also be modeled with displacement and blink. An enlightened sword saint is a master of the Zen paradoxes which paradoxically means that he was moved beyond the paradoxes rather than having mastered them per se.

It’s a Zen thing.