Revised (Slightly) Character Advancement Table

[dave2008]

As far as the pace is concerned, I get it is now more geared towards immediate satisfaction than older versions of D&D. I explained to my current players in 1E, we would normally spend 1 to 2 months gaming just at first level! Why? Because low-level monsters were worth so little and you needed 2000 EXP for second level (Fighters, anyway...). Even using my session-based scheme for 5E, it would take a player four years to reach Level 20 assuming one session a week. In 1E/2E, I ran a campaign with the same players/characters for five years, playing every week with few exceptions, and in the end they ranged from 16th-19th levels. Are many newer players willing to put that kind of time into a character nowadays? Seems unlikely from my exposure, but I could be (and hope) I am wrong.

Well I'm not new to D&D, but one of my groups started with 4e (so about 2008-2009) and then converted the same campaign to 5e and they are currently at level 12. So that is just a little faster than 1 level per year.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

it’s hardwired into our brains to find the rising tension -> peak -> climax -> falling tension -> repeat structure satisfying

While they was probably their intent, I find that to be the case in the adventure itself, not the EXP table. If the levels represent ever-increasing powers and abilities, the EXP required should reflect that IMO.

What matters in a game is not mathematical elegance, it is play experience. The breakpoints are placed so that the thing you get after them really feels like a payoff for an achievement - you worked hard, risked much, and were rewarded for your effort. They are looking at what they've done, and feeling the reward for it when they get it. The intent is to work well with human perception and psychological rewards.

So, basically, it is like saying, obtaining Level Y won't be as rewarding as obtaining Level X, so getting to Level Y shouldn't need as much EXP. We'll just drop it below the amount needed for Level X, so you get through the "less rewarding" Level Y more quickly and move on towards working getting better "rewards" at Level Z!

By that logic, look at obtaining 12th and 16th Levels. Most of the classes get identical rewards (mainly ASIs and Hit Points) at those levels, nothing else (a couple archetypes get a bonus spell slot maybe, but that's about all...). And yet, you need 15000 EXP to go from 11th to 12th and twice that, 30000 EXP, to go from 15th to 16th. If the rewards are the same, why is the EXP required doubled? Going further, most classes get more "rewards" at 4th and 8th levels, but achieving those levels from 3rd and 7th only require 1800 and 11000 EXP, respectively. Since those levels offer more rewards and greater satisfaction, shouldn't they require greater EXP?

No. But that counter's arguments for the rise and falling EXP curve progression to reflect rewards and achievement.

 

[TwoSix]

In 1E/2E, I ran a campaign with the same players/characters for five years, playing every week with few exceptions, and in the end they ranged from 16th-19th levels. Are many newer players willing to put that kind of time into a character nowadays? Seems unlikely from my exposure, but I could be (and hope) I am wrong.

I don't know if I'm a newer player (I've been playing since 1991), but hells to the no. 200+ sessions with the same character? <shudder>

 

[Beowulf]

Really it should follow the Fibonacci sequence.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The goal of the exp table is to make advancement work like this:
View attachment 103451

It looks messy and ugly, but it’s hardwired into our brains to find the rising tension -> peak -> climax -> falling tension -> repeat structure satisfying, particularly when it’s nested within a larger tension curve composed of many small tension curves. Your version is more aesthetically pleasing, creating a nice, ever-increasing slope. But it’s not going to be as satisfying to your players’ “lizard brains.”

That’s not anything new, of course. Tons of DMs throw out the XP table. Heck, lots of people throw out XP entirely, so this will at the very least be more satisfying than that. You certainly won’t break the game.

I struggle to believe the XP advance table actually adds the dramatic tension swings you're claiming here. Too many variables go into encounters, much less session frequency for that to be true. In reality, the design intent has been stated, and it's to rush 1-4 as training, maximize the sweet spot of 5-10th level to spend the most time there, and then quickly move through the 11-15th range because it's odd, and then linger a tad in the gonzo Tier IV. It's about the tiers of play, not a tool to increase dramatic tension.

 

[Charlaquin]

In reality, the design intent has been stated, and it's to rush 1-4 as training, maximize the sweet spot of 5-10th level to spend the most time there, and then quickly move through the 11-15th range because it's odd, and then linger a tad in the gonzo Tier IV.

I feel like what you’re describing here is a dramatic arc.

 

[FrogReaver]

[MENTION=6976296]James Grover[/MENTION]

Is a smoother leveling XP table actually more fun? If not why bother?

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Really it should follow the Fibonacci sequence.

LOL!

Don't TEMPT ME, Beowülf! I dare not use it. Not even to make things smoother. Understand, Beowülf, I would use the Fibonacci sequence from a desire to make a good Character Advancement Table. But through me, it would wield make a Table to great and terrible to imagine.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

[MENTION=6976296]James Grover[/MENTION]

Is a smoother leveling XP table actually more fun? If not why bother?

Well, my table has the first few levels take slightly longer. Yes, those levels can be "deadly", but they flew by SO fast in my game that we hardly noticed. Then, later on, my table lets players get to the mid and higher levels slightly faster, which I think players would enjoy.

So, yes, to answer your question, my table would be more fun to play with IMO -- which is why I am going to use it from now on.

 

[Tallifer]

I like a slow campaign. Here is my own houseruled 5E XP chart (and I always give between 100 and 500 per session regardless of level, but I also give bonus XP for art, journals, maps et cetera):

Level 1 0 Level 11 96,000
Level 2 2,000 Level 12 128,000
Level 3 4,000 Level 13 160,000
Level 4 8,000 Level 14 224,000
Level 5 12,000 Level 15 288,000
Level 6 16,000 Level 16 352,000
Level 7 24,000 Level 17 480,000
Level 8 32,000 Level 18 608,000
Level 9 48,000 Level 19 736,000
Level 10 64,000 Level 20 1,000,000