Revision Spotlight (6/17)

[Kevmann10583]

I wonder, why can't you deflect arrows with a shield or something, it kind of makes more sense to me.

 

[Li Shenron]

Prone is just what it is. Means that you can't fire off any projectiles except a x-bow and you take a hit to your AC and your attacks. Nothing more. It does not add a flat-footed status.

I will say that it would be nice to know a few sample spot DC's for determining awareness. Altho it's pretty easy to ad-hoc. I'd just assign a -4 to the check (if needed at all) for a prone defender. Unless someone hasn't fired off a shot yet, the deflector is going to know he's being fired at and I would consider that aware. Before that would be a spot check or maybe in some cases a reflex save.

You can determine awareness in the way you prefer, obviously. But my point is that without a roll needed to use this ability, it is more difficult for the DM to adjudicate circumstances by simply giving a bonus/malus on the roll. In the example of being prone, you decided first to require a Spot check and then adjudicating a penalty for being prone. But let's say you have played this feat for many sessions without a PC being prone, and therefore not requiring a Spot check at all...

Hey, I am not criticizing your adjudication, ok? I am just trying to say that such a feat with automatic success and no roll could make things more complicated for the DM that with the simple Reflex roll.

Let's try to find another example... you are subject to a Slow spell, which gives you (in 3e...) -2 to Reflex ST among other penalties. Obvious, you are slow and arrows move faster than before in your perspective. Without any roll the DM can basically do nothing as simple as applying the same penalty, he has to introduce a roll which was not from the beginning. Possibly not that tragic, but d20 is ALL about bonuses and penalties!

It doesn't matter if it's Refl or Dex check... In another case, with a Slowed PC trying to Swim for example, a DM may rule0 that the -2 from Slow applies to Swim checks because it's more difficult to keep floating while moving slowly, easy as bread.

Ok, that was just a general opinion on this feat's design, it's not necessarily important

 

[smetzger]

Now that there is no roll for success it simplifies the feat, which is good. However....

Why can't a a Titan with this feat deflect a boulder thrown by a hill giant?

The feat should be reworded so this is possible.

Although the cinematic effect of Snatch Arrows is cool the benefits in no way justify a feat. SKR has already suggested raising the DC for Deflecting an arrow to indicate that you caught it.

 

[TiQuinn]

Now that there is no roll for success it simplifies the feat, which is good. However....

Why can't a a Titan with this feat deflect a boulder thrown by a hill giant?

The feat should be reworded so this is possible.

Although the cinematic effect of Snatch Arrows is cool the benefits in no way justify a feat. SKR has already suggested raising the DC for Deflecting an arrow to indicate that you caught it.

I don't know...it allows you to throw back a thrown weapon even if it's not your turn. That would require a feat, I think.

 

[smetzger]

I don't know...it allows you to throw back a thrown weapon even if it's not your turn. That would require a feat, I think.

It was rated a 2.80 out of 10 in my polls.
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32201

 

[TiQuinn]

It was rated a 2.80 out of 10 in my polls.
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32201

True, but that's poll was taken when Deflect Arrows required a DC 20 Reflex check too.

 

[MadScientist]

I don't like that it's automatic either. Before, I did think the DC for the save was just plain too high (difficult even for chars with good reflex saves) I kinda wish they had just lowered the save, maybe to 15. (Or perhaps 10 + 1/2 BaB of the attacker... actually I like this one)

It just seems weird that one guy with a x-bow could shoot at you all day and never hit. It also seems weird that you can't apply situational modifiers for being entangled or prone and the like.

 

[Estlor]

In the case of being entangled, as the DM I'd argue you didn't have at least one hand free - you were entangled!

 

[Psion]

The automatic thing makes it powerful enough, but it sort of closes off the possiblity of multi deflect. I don't think it's too powerful; it's easy enough to get extra attacks.

That said, I am still not happy with it. I have always though snatch arrows was too specific. What's the point of snatching arrows if you have to have one hand free? (How this is "too cool" other than visually, I will never know.) Finally, this feat could have pulled in things like shield and arrow cutting techniques if it weren't for the silly "hand free" thing.

I see that they might have been trying to make it more simple, but sacrificed the possibilities with this feat to do so. A multi-deflect follow-on feat would be too powerful. Further, I could (and in my campaign, already do) ditch the all-too-specific snatch arrows feat by saying if you make your roll by enough that you snatch the arrow instead.

 

[jmucchiello]

There really needs to be a pre-Epic way of deflecting more than one missile, though. Maybe an Improved Deflect Arrows that allows one snatch/deflect per point of Dex bonus.

I include such a feat in Character Customization. I don't remember the prereq's at the moment but the DC goes up by 3 for each missile after the first. Yet another item I'll have to figure out a fix for when I revise the book next month.