Reviving Greyhawk: A letter-writing campaign.
- Thread starter jokamachi
- Start date
The Blue Elf
First Post
JeffB said:
Well for me I seem to notice that they change the background story for NPC in the Epic players hand book of Eclavdra p.307 In the Source the orginal moduals see G1-3 Against the Giants, p. 25 and D3, Vault of the Drow p. 18. she severed a diffrent gods like Graz'zt,Elemental Elder eye, and now Lolth?
Contradictions abound, especially from EGG's work to later 1E, 2E, and 3E materials.
Desdichado
Hero
You want to write in a campaign to bring Greyhawk back? Knock yerself out. I have no interest in it, and can't see why anyone would want that anyway. Wasn't the whole point of Greyhawk that it wasn't a completely, fully fleshed out setting?
Reprisal
First Post
Having purchased the D&D Gazetteer and read the Living Greyhawk book, I'm reasonably interested in a more fleshed-out iteration of the setting in terms of a FRCS-type hardcover, but I have to wonder about whether or not it's likely in terms of getting professionals motivated to actually write it. It's my suspicion that the developers at WotC aren't particularly interested in writing anything more than modules for Greyhawk, and that may be an indication into whether or not such a project would get the internal green light.
If I ever start up a D&D campaign in the future, I'd probably go with either a homebrew or Kalamar, both of which allow me to go in any direction with relative ease (as opposed to settings like Dragonlance, FR, or Scarred Lands, which are less thematically neutral and not particularly attractive to my interests). Obviously, you can pretty much do anything with anything, but the question isn't as much if you can do it (whatever it may be), but rather how easily it will be for you to do what you want to do...
*shrug*
At the same time, one can never have too many settings to steal ideas from,
- Rep.
If I ever start up a D&D campaign in the future, I'd probably go with either a homebrew or Kalamar, both of which allow me to go in any direction with relative ease (as opposed to settings like Dragonlance, FR, or Scarred Lands, which are less thematically neutral and not particularly attractive to my interests). Obviously, you can pretty much do anything with anything, but the question isn't as much if you can do it (whatever it may be), but rather how easily it will be for you to do what you want to do...
*shrug*
At the same time, one can never have too many settings to steal ideas from,
- Rep.
The Blue Elf
First Post
Reprisal said:If I ever start up a D&D campaign in the future, I'd probably go with either a homebrew or Kalamar, both of which allow me to go in any direction with relative ease (as opposed to settings like Dragonlance, FR, or Scarred Lands, which are less thematically neutral and not particularly attractive to my interests). Obviously, you can pretty much do anything with anything, but the question isn't as much if you can do it (whatever it may be), but rather how easily it will be for you to do what you want to do...
*shrug*
At the same time, one can never have too many settings to steal ideas from,
- Rep.
Here is a Short interview that I remember that Monte Cook did at Home of Gord the Rogue read his veiws on Greyhawk.
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Coreyartus
Explorer
In defense of Living Greyhawk, I have to say I think the RPGA/Circle of Six are doing a great job. It's hard to coordinate a world with 200 mods coming out every year. It's hard to manage story lines from hundreds of middle-management folk (triads) and almost as many writers. It's hard to keep 14,000 players happy all the time. Try it. I dare you to develop a campaign that has the exact right mix of crunchy and chewy, soft and hard, hack-n-slash and roleplaying to maintain a perfectly even status quo over a developing storyline that changes depending on player and volunteer input, and keep everyone satisfied all the time. It ain't gonna happen.
Not everyone is going to be happy with what LG come up with, but there are A LOT of players that seem to be very entertained with what they've brewed up, regardless. I would venture to say even more numbers than those very vocal dyed-in-the-wool "Grey-fanatics" that can't be happy with anything but what they've personally put their stamp of approval on.
The great thing about Greyhawk is that because it's loose, both camps (and many more inbetween) can be happy. If you start publishing material you automatically start putting boundaries around personal creativity, codifying what is appropriate and what is not on many many different levels. D&D is about providing rule guidelines, and ultimately leaving it to the DM to decide what's acceptable--why should a campaign setting be any different? They've provided the guidelines, now it's up to everyone else to take it where they want. Some will choose the RPGA and all it entails (warts and all), and others will select a different vision (and all the work that goes with it).
But at least that's an option. With more fleshing out, you have to know more and more about the campaign to stay on top of it, and eventually it stagnates from being too information-heavy (like FR is about to do...). Creating a vast canon that inadvertantly becomes elitist by it's very nature, and too difficult to contribute to is not something D&D is about. FR has been there, done that, so why repeat it?
My two cents--
Coreyartus
Not everyone is going to be happy with what LG come up with, but there are A LOT of players that seem to be very entertained with what they've brewed up, regardless. I would venture to say even more numbers than those very vocal dyed-in-the-wool "Grey-fanatics" that can't be happy with anything but what they've personally put their stamp of approval on.
The great thing about Greyhawk is that because it's loose, both camps (and many more inbetween) can be happy. If you start publishing material you automatically start putting boundaries around personal creativity, codifying what is appropriate and what is not on many many different levels. D&D is about providing rule guidelines, and ultimately leaving it to the DM to decide what's acceptable--why should a campaign setting be any different? They've provided the guidelines, now it's up to everyone else to take it where they want. Some will choose the RPGA and all it entails (warts and all), and others will select a different vision (and all the work that goes with it).
But at least that's an option. With more fleshing out, you have to know more and more about the campaign to stay on top of it, and eventually it stagnates from being too information-heavy (like FR is about to do...). Creating a vast canon that inadvertantly becomes elitist by it's very nature, and too difficult to contribute to is not something D&D is about. FR has been there, done that, so why repeat it?
My two cents--
Coreyartus
Wraith Form
Explorer
Emirikol said:
Uh, actually, I bought them. ALL of the ones you listed above, and then some more. Even the adventures (Stair Cairns, Doomgrinder, etc.). YEEEEEES, even the d20 Gazetteer.
I feel as if I should expand on my initial post so here's one example concerning Greyhawk that recently ruffled a few feathers.
A while back, the Living Greyhawk folks supposedly suggested doing a compilation of the Living Journal, which as you know, is a wonderful resource for the living campaign. Basically, they wanted to take all the issues for a single year and put out a year's worth of journals in a single volume. It seemed like a good idea that would sell fairly well amongst a large number of LGG fans, not to mention a significant percentage of those Greyhawk fans that were not connected to the living camapign. Despite the plan's relative viabilty, the RPGA got shot down. Why? They got their funding cut a long time ago when Wotc was restructured.
From what I understand, the original plan for the living campaign was to put out a new sourcebook every year, but Wotc reneged on their promise and Greyhawk got hung out to dry. So in a nutshell, they're not even following their original plan for Living Greyhawk. It's not that they don't have buyers for Greyhawk, the LGG is still selling reasonably well, it's just that other supplements would have followed suit if Wotc had lived up to its agreement with the RPGA. But as you know, they didn't, and sadly, that was only the tip of the iceberg; then they went out and fired nearly everyone in the company.
A compilation of the Living Greyhawk Journal is a reasonable place to start if you want to request a specific product from Wizards/Hasbro. But their are others, notably an upadated and expanded hardcover sourcebook. Another one would be better maps, the sort of which we used to see with the old box set. A Faiths and Pantheons for Greyhawk is yet another that comes to mind. Take your pick. If you're a Greyhawk fan, all of these would pique some interest.
Lastly, if you have no interest in Greyhawk, that's fine with me; I'm not interested in converting the faithless. I've already read all the responses that say I'm wasting my time and that I'm going to fail in my effort to revive Greyhawk but hey, I knew I would take a lot of flak for writing this. I did it because I truly love the setting and want to see it grow. That's why I will say it again: If you love Greyhawk and want to see more products related to the setting, don't be discouraged by pessimists that can't be bothered to lift a pen. Get yourself an envelope and fire off a letter. It will make a difference.
A while back, the Living Greyhawk folks supposedly suggested doing a compilation of the Living Journal, which as you know, is a wonderful resource for the living campaign. Basically, they wanted to take all the issues for a single year and put out a year's worth of journals in a single volume. It seemed like a good idea that would sell fairly well amongst a large number of LGG fans, not to mention a significant percentage of those Greyhawk fans that were not connected to the living camapign. Despite the plan's relative viabilty, the RPGA got shot down. Why? They got their funding cut a long time ago when Wotc was restructured.
From what I understand, the original plan for the living campaign was to put out a new sourcebook every year, but Wotc reneged on their promise and Greyhawk got hung out to dry. So in a nutshell, they're not even following their original plan for Living Greyhawk. It's not that they don't have buyers for Greyhawk, the LGG is still selling reasonably well, it's just that other supplements would have followed suit if Wotc had lived up to its agreement with the RPGA. But as you know, they didn't, and sadly, that was only the tip of the iceberg; then they went out and fired nearly everyone in the company.
A compilation of the Living Greyhawk Journal is a reasonable place to start if you want to request a specific product from Wizards/Hasbro. But their are others, notably an upadated and expanded hardcover sourcebook. Another one would be better maps, the sort of which we used to see with the old box set. A Faiths and Pantheons for Greyhawk is yet another that comes to mind. Take your pick. If you're a Greyhawk fan, all of these would pique some interest.
Lastly, if you have no interest in Greyhawk, that's fine with me; I'm not interested in converting the faithless. I've already read all the responses that say I'm wasting my time and that I'm going to fail in my effort to revive Greyhawk but hey, I knew I would take a lot of flak for writing this. I did it because I truly love the setting and want to see it grow. That's why I will say it again: If you love Greyhawk and want to see more products related to the setting, don't be discouraged by pessimists that can't be bothered to lift a pen. Get yourself an envelope and fire off a letter. It will make a difference.
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Desdichado
Hero
Yeah, well, you're missing my point. Isn't the whole idea of 3e Greyhawk that it's only supposed to be developed to a certain point? That it's supposed to be left open for DMs to do with as they will? Seems to me like you're mucking with the mission statement of the setting.jokamachi said:
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