Rewards for filling iconic roles

[nittanytbone]

I am about to run the Red Hand of Doom. I'll be using a limited Action Points system (only allowing them to be used to add to d20 rolls -- no extra actions!) as a way to instantly reward players "on the spot" for great play.

I would also like to use them at character creation to encourage players to fill the iconic four roles. I'll have each player cast lots at char creation; whoever rolls highest gets to pick their favored role first, whoever rolls lowest gets stuck with whatever is left.

For each of the conditions that the player fills, they'll get an AP to start the game with.

I designed the requirements so that they can be met by a 4th level "vanilla" exemplar of the role. The bonus points are attainable by a 5th level character (limited or focused multiclassing). This system will be used with 5th level characters built with 28 point buy.

WARRIOR
• Two feats from the Fighter Bonus Feat list (Three feats = 2xAP)
• 28 HP (Average of 5d10)
• BAB +4 (BAB +5 = 2xAP)

PRIEST
• Caster Level 4 for divine magic (CL 5 = 2xAP)
• Ability to turn/rebuke undead
• Alignment within one step of a patron deity (Same Alignment as Patron = 2xAP)

ROGUE/SKILLMONKEY
• Trapfinding class ability
• 8 ranks in Search & Disable Device (8 ranks in Open Lock as well = 2xAP)
• At least 56 total skill points (64 = 2xAP)

WIZARD
• Caster level 4 for Arcane Magic (CL 5 = 2xAP)
• 5 ranks in any two knowledge skills (Three Skills = 2xAP)
• 8 ranks in concentration and spellcraft

EXAMPLE:

Joe the player wants to make a warrior. When casting lots on a D20, he rolls the second highest -- luckily, the fellow that rolled higher chose to play the skillmonkey! Relieved, Joe claims warrior.

Joe builds a half-orc rogue 1/barbarian 4. He selects Power Attack and Improved Bullrush as his feats, heading for Shock Trooper at level 6. These two feats earn him 1 AP.

His HP are good -- 40. This earns him a second AP.

Finally, he has a solid BAB of +4. This earns him a third AP.

After considering things, Joe decides to swap the rogue level out for a fighter level. This nets him BAB +5 and an extra feat, for a total of Five APs.


Any thoughts or feedback? Has anyone else tried incentives like this? I'd prefer to provide players with rewards for building a balanced party than force them with strict rules and limited material.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Assuming I'm a player in your game, I just take whichever role is left.

So a CG Human Warblade 3/Duskblade 1/Cleric of Kord (War and Strength domains) 1 with the following feats:
- Practiced Spellcaster (Duskblade)
- Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
- Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
- Power Attack
And the following stats: Str 13 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 8

Gets 1 AP each for:
- Having a +4 BAB
- Two Feats from the Fighter bonus list
- Having 28+ HP [average HP is 33ish]
- Caster Level 4 for Divine spells (CL 5, actually, so one more here.)
- Caster Level 4 for Arcane Spells (also CL 5, so one more here as well.)
- Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead
- Alignment within one step of Patron Deity
- Five Ranks in two Knowledge skills (History and Local)
- Five Ranks in a third Knowledge skill (Arcana)
- At least 56 skill points.

This totals 12 AP.

Also, how is it possible to have a character with 9 ranks in skills at level 5, when the maximum ranks at that level is 8?

Just trying to find holes in your system, man. No offense intended. Then again, this is all moot if what you were trying to say is "For each condition of their chosen/forced roll that the player fills, they'll get an AP to start the game with." Still, it's possible to build a character that fills every non-trapfinding roll with your criteria.

-TRRW

 

[Wik]

Yeah. While I commend you for trying to encourage a balanced party, I think there are better ways to do it. All a system such as this does is encourage munchkinist thinking - "How can I get the maximum number of action points while making a good character?"

Really, with a system like this in place, it fails to encourage creating interesting characters, and instead rewards characters for trying to fill as many shoes as possible -which is never good.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think he means that you get to choose 1 iconic, and you get AP from the list of that iconic only, but not the others.

Besides, how pathetic it would be to build a character that doesn't make sense or is seriously underpowered (and maybe you don't even want to play that character at all), just to get a few AP more? Here AP even have a fairly limited use...

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the character idea I posted could rock all kinds of faces. I believe I'll use him as a back-up character.

Round 1: Cast Blade of Blood, sacrificing 5 HP [Swift], Cast Shocking Grasp [Standard], Move.
Round 2: Tumble into Melee range. Initiate Mountain Hammer. Deal 7d6+5d6{Electrical} [average 36, max 72] that ignores DR and Hardness.

Also, he can heal and Turn Undead. Oh, and he has Tumble, so as to better flank people and generally be a more effective combatant and ally. I really don't see what's so weak about this build.

As to the 'that doesn't make sense' side: "From a young age, I trained as a Warblade. I was a promising Martial Adept. Eventually, I decided to take up the life of adventuring. My party's arcanist would sacrifice his own life force to help me do damage (via his castings of Blade of Blood). I, being noble and self-sacrificing, watched his motions and learned my own way of blending the blade with arcane energy. Thus allowing me to sacrifice my own life-force instead of his. This thinking eventually led me to study at the temple of my deity, hoping to be able to not only shoulder the burden for my comrades, but to help them recover from wounds quicker."

It sounds like a fun (and actually kinda organic) character to me.

-TRRW

 

[Phlebas]

I'm assuming this is something you do every level - ie each level you check yourself against the 'average' vanilla pc in 1 of 4 roles, and get 2xAP if you meet or exceed the criteria, 1 AP if you're close or have I misunderstood?

If it is then it seems a useful bonus to reward iconic roles - you might have to restrict feats (eg practiced spell caster) if they're only taken to get the AP, though if someone spends a feat to get an AP, rather than taking the feat that gives you bonus AP......

How would it work if you have 3, or 5 PC's though? I can't remember the last time we had a group of 4....

 

[nittanytbone]

Hey,

Just a few clarifications.

Multiple Lists

The intent is to allow you to only gain AP from the criteria in your list. So, if you're the skillmonkey, you only get AP for filling the Skillmonkey criteria (trapfinding, search/disable device, lots of SP). That leaves you a LOT of flexibility for how you get there (straight rogue, rogue/ranger mix, spellthief, rogue/cloistered cleric, kobold domain cleric, whatever). So the maximum AP anyone could get under this system would be 5.

"Gaming" the system to get AP

If the person who draws "priest" doesn't want to play a healer, and they just do Cleric 1/Fighter 4 and throw in practiced spellcaster, that's fine by me. At least they have some marginal healing ability and can throw down the occasional buff for the team. They'll still function as the representative of an alignment and deity (for RP reasons). The intent is to reward people for filling the role -- the more they fill it (however that may be), the more rewards they will gain.

Skill Ranks

Oops -- edited from 9 to 8 in OP.

Does that make a bit more sense?

 

[Wednesday Boy]

One thing that I could see as a problem is that 1-3 of the players could get stuck playing an archetype that they don't want to play. I would first let the players know this is what you intend and get their opinion on the matter. If they like the idea that they each need to take one of the iconic roles, consider having them work out who takes which one. That way since they're working it out as a group and all have a say in the matter, there won't be anyone who gets stuck with a role. Of course, depending on the variety of character your players like to play and how it gets chosen, it could work out perfectly!

 

[Li Shenron]

It sounds like a fun (and actually kinda organic) character to me.

Yes, I didn't mean that it was bad. I just meant that as a general idea I don't see players trying to force themselves into something they didn't plan to play in the first place just to max the AP

 

[Nimloth]

I'll have each player cast lots at char creation; whoever rolls highest gets to pick their favored role first, whoever rolls lowest gets stuck with whatever is left.

While I applaud the idea of trying to encourage a diverse party (particularly when running a premade), forcing people to assume roles is a poor idea. It might be better to make the lists more detailed and allow them to choose which role they want to fill. Not having a role filled is usually punishment enough. No healer = more character deaths, No rogue = traps BAD, etc...

How about this, let them choose which role they will try to fill, but they get -1 AP for each extra player filling the same role. Two warriors, then both start with fewer AP. This might also encourage the group to create characters as a group. Or not. I can dream can't I.

PRIEST
• Caster Level 4 for divine magic (CL 5 = 2xAP)
• Ability to turn/rebuke undead
• Alignment within one step of a patron deity (Same Alignment as Patron = 2xAP)

PRIEST
• Caster Level 4 for divine magic (1AP)
• Can cast a Level 3 divine spell (1AP)
• Can cast a Level 2 cure spell (1AP)
• Ability to turn/rebuke undead (1AP)
• Same Alignment as Patron (1AP)