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Rewatching the Batman movies

One reason might be that Jack decide to take ALOT less in base base, but take a percentage of the box office instead. WB quickly accepted, not knowing how big Batman did become, and how big a paycheque they had to give Nicholson in the end.
Think youre right. Devito tried to get the same deal and WB only gave him a portion of the merchandising iirc.
 

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cbwjm

Hero
Tim Burton wanted Jack Nicholson for the Joker, but he wanted too much money or just wasnt interested. For what ever reason, he only took the part after WB was going to cast Robin Williams, who genuinely wanted the part. Fast forward 5 or so years same story with Batman Forever. They wanted Jim Carey for the Riddler but considered Robin Williams only until Jim Carrey took the part. Now honestly I dont know the particulars or the ins and outs of how Hollywood works but things Ive read about it over the years seems like Robin Williams got screwed, was used as a pawn and in my opinion would have filled both those roles way better than Nicholson or Carey. I watched the 1989 Batman a few years back, it didnt really hold up and Jack Nicholsons performance was too over the top and over rated IMO.
Had they used him, Robin Williams would have been great as the clock king. Williams had some great roles which were more serious and I think he would have been great in the role. Of the two villains you mention he was considered for, I think he'd work best as the riddler than the joker.
 

Had they used him, Robin Williams would have been great as the clock king. Williams had some great roles which were more serious and I think he would have been great in the role. Of the two villains you mention he was considered for, I think he'd work best as the riddler than the joker.
Agree he'd probably have made a better Riddler but then again he had some good chops as a dramatic actor as well and could have gone all One-Hour Photo if cast as the Joker.

Think I read somewhere a few weeks ago Bill Murray was approached at one point for the Joker in '89. Its fun to think how that wouldve turned out but alas the closest we got was Quick Change.
 

ccs

40th lv DM
Same general order.
'89 & Returns - i like these almost equally, though with just a slight edge to Returns. They share 1st place in this series for me.
+: Keaton, Burton, Elfman, the look, the music/score, the car.
Original movie poster for '89 - Batsymbol & the date. Done, sold.
The opening sequence of '89 where it traces the symbol to the Elfman theme.
The opening action sequence of Returns.
-: Batman's body count in both. Killing off the main villains.
* And, like everyone else on the planet, when it was learned who was cast as BW/Batman my response was "Keaton? Really??"
At that point I'd only seen him in two or three things. And even though one of those was Beetlejuice I'd not have thought of him dressed in the bat suit.
But good choice.
Other than Adam West he's my favorite live-action Batman to date.

Forever - eh, its ok. Not as good as Keaton's outings, but....
+: other than the two main villains I liked most of it well enough. Or didn't dislike it.
I even sort of like the car..
-: the villains. Neither of these guys are {my} favorites from the comics, but i can see using them in a movie. Jones & Carey were utterly wasted in these roles however.:(

Batman & Robin.....:(
+: the coolest thing about this movie was its intital teaser/trailer. The one where you see a snowy Gotham & the camera slowly pulls back to reveal Mr. Freeze holding a Gotham snow globe.
-: Of all the merchandising for this one (and there was alot)? They never sold the damned Gotham snow globe. :(
- -: Gah! What the #&$#* did they do to the car??
 

trappedslider

Adventurer
Batman (1989)
And Batman's code of not killing, when in the film Batman's body count was high, including The Joker at the end of the film.
I suggest doing a google search for times batman has killed.....the oldest body would be from Batman #1, 1940 where he hung a guy from his batplane....and it just goes from there on and off....it's more of a "most of the time" code lol
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
I suggest doing a google search for times batman has killed.....the oldest body would be from Batman #1, 1940 where he hung a guy from his batplane....and it just goes from there on and off....it's more of a "most of the time" code lol
Yes, the Batman thing definitely goes back and forth over the more than 80 years he's appeared in comics. Hell, he used guns in the wartime movie serials, runs cars off the road, etc..

Superman is far more rigid in his "no kill" rules, though he has also gone off the rails on rare occasions. That's one of the reasons I so dislike "Man of Steel"; it goes with the exception, rather than the rule.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I absolutely love the 60s Batman series and I feel Adam West is hugely underrated as an actor overall, and the show is gloriously clever.

So my absolute favorite part of Batman & Robin was when Robin said "Holy Rusted Metal, Batman!" then awkwardly trying to explain the phrase so it made sense in context. I thought that bit was brilliant.

Also, and this goes throughout the Burton films as well, there are a surprising number of nods to the 60s show in the movies.
 

So my absolute favorite part of Batman & Robin was when Robin said "Holy Rusted Metal, Batman!"

I havent seen it in quite awhile but I think that was in Batman Forever actually. Only reason I remember, or at least Im pretty sure, was because the 89' Batman and Forever were the only two I saw in the theater; or all the way through for that matter. I dont think Ive ever saw all of Returns or Batman and Robin, just bits and pieces over the years.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I havent seen it in quite awhile but I think that was in Batman Forever actually. Only reason I remember, or at least Im pretty sure, was because the 89' Batman and Forever were the only two I saw in the theater; or all the way through for that matter. I dont think Ive ever saw all of Returns or Batman and Robin, just bits and pieces over the years.
You could be right. It's been ages since I've seen any of them, too, but I've always associate that bit with Batman & Robin.

Edit: verified, you are correct. Oops!
 


the Jester

Legend
Yes, the Batman thing definitely goes back and forth over the more than 80 years he's appeared in comics. Hell, he used guns in the wartime movie serials, runs cars off the road, etc..

Superman is far more rigid in his "no kill" rules, though he has also gone off the rails on rare occasions. That's one of the reasons I so dislike "Man of Steel"; it goes with the exception, rather than the rule.

The thing that made me realize that they'd really missed who Superman is in Man of Steel was the scene where he steals clothes off a line.

Him killing Zod to save everyone around him? That I can see- a regrettable necessity to prevent massive loss of life.

Him stealing clothing for the sake of convenience? Oof.
 

ART!

Adventurer
It's a shame. Clooney could have been a great Batman with the right director/script.

He certainly could have been a great Bruce Wayne. Not sure about Batman.

If the history of Batman movies has proved anything, it's that anyone can play Batman. The trick is making Bruce Wayne interesting. I guess it's because the mask and suit do so much to create the Bat-persona, but you need the motivation and drive in the Bruce portrayal for it to make any sense.

For me, Michael Keaton remains the most interesting Bruce Wayne performance - he's a weird, complicated, intense dude.

This might be my favorite moment from any Batman movie (from Batman Returns):


Like, how long was he sitting there...brooding...waiting...alone...for the signal? He has nothing else. It's a neat take on the character.

I kind of despise DeVito's Penguin in Batman Returns. It's very Burton-esque, but doesn't work for me in this Bat-universe, and seems like only half-way to where Burton would like to take it, or to where the film/setting/studio will let him take it. Plus, it distracts from the Selina and Bruce/Selina stuff, which is the best stuff in the movie for me. I really wanted Catwoman to be the only villain, and focus on those tragedies.
 


Ryujin

Adventurer
If the history of Batman movies has proved anything, it's that anyone can play Batman. The trick is making Bruce Wayne interesting. I guess it's because the mask and suit do so much to create the Bat-persona, but you need the motivation and drive in the Bruce portrayal for it to make any sense.

For me, Michael Keaton remains the most interesting Bruce Wayne performance - he's a weird, complicated, intense dude.

This might be my favorite moment from any Batman movie (from Batman Returns):


Like, how long was he sitting there...brooding...waiting...alone...for the signal? He has nothing else. It's a neat take on the character.

I kind of despise DeVito's Penguin in Batman Returns. It's very Burton-esque, but doesn't work for me in this Bat-universe, and seems like only half-way to where Burton would like to take it, or to where the film/setting/studio will let him take it. Plus, it distracts from the Selina and Bruce/Selina stuff, which is the best stuff in the movie for me. I really wanted Catwoman to be the only villain, and focus on those tragedies.
I disagree; not everyone can play Batman. Bruce Wayne and Batman must be divergent characters. For all of the growling, Christian Bale and Christopher Nolan understood this. Keaton understood it, with his crazy-eyed looks.

Clooney is Clooney, with or without the mask. Clooney can be Bruce Wayne because, throw a few more billion dollars at him, and he is Bruce Wayne. He doesn't really do well at stepping outside of his own skin though, so he can't be Batman. It's like Will Smith playing Deadshot. He puts on all of the high tech gear, costume, and a dozen firearms, and becomes.... Will Smith. (Robbie put him to shame in that dog of a movie)
 

ART!

Adventurer
I disagree; not everyone can play Batman. Bruce Wayne and Batman must be divergent characters. For all of the growling, Christian Bale and Christopher Nolan understood this. Keaton understood it, with his crazy-eyed looks.

Clooney is Clooney, with or without the mask. Clooney can be Bruce Wayne because, throw a few more billion dollars at him, and he is Bruce Wayne. He doesn't really do well at stepping outside of his own skin though, so he can't be Batman. It's like Will Smith playing Deadshot. He puts on all of the high tech gear, costume, and a dozen firearms, and becomes.... Will Smith. (Robbie put him to shame in that dog of a movie)
I see your point, but I will counter that Clooney's take on the character is in the spirit of the movie he's in, and thereby closer to Adam West's - and so the two persona's aren't different. I think that's intentional, although it's a little clouded by - as you observe - Clooney is always Clooney. But then all the other costumed characters in the movie are the same way - single personas in and out fo costume - so...I don't know!
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Joel Schumacher said that each movie was a different Batman era. Batman & Robin was Adam West 60s era Batman.
 



billd91

Hobbit on Quest
Adam West disagreed, and he played more hours of Batman than anyone.

Whether or not he's right or Ryujin is right depends on which Batman you're going for. 1960s Batman fits Adam West's ideal more than Batman in the 1930s when they played up more contrasts between Bruce Wayne the playboy industrialist and Batman. A lot would depend on how much you want the two to diverge in the impressions they give to the viewer/witnesses, how important protecting his secret identity is, how much you want the persona of Batman to be menacing or obsessive as emphasized to various degrees in Batman since the 1970s.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
And the '60s TV show was very divergent from the comic books. We're all allowed to have opinions ;)

Sure, we are all allowed to have opinions, but he MUST be one thing. Right. Got it.

It is more accurate to say that the modern comic books are divergent from both the TV show and other comics. Batman... has not always been serious stuff. Dark, broody, of-questionable-mental-health-Batman is not the only Batman.


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