D&D (2024) Reworked…revised…redone….but

[Parmandur]

It's absolutely still backwards compatible. People want to make it incompatible because it suits their narratives and settles their bar bets. It's not 6e anymore than B/X, BECMI and the Rules Cyclopedia were 1e, 2e, and 3e of Basic.

Nah, those were the 2E, 3E, and 5E of Basic.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

It's not 6e anymore than B/X, BECMI and the Rules Cyclopedia were 1e, 2e, and 3e of Basic.

Oh don't worry, tons of people edition war over the minor differences between those too

 

[GMMichael]

It's absolutely still backwards compatible. People want to make it incompatible because it suits their narratives and settles their bar bets. It's not 6e anymore than B/X, BECMI and the Rules Cyclopedia were 1e, 2e, and 3e of Basic.

I haven't played those - can't comment on how "new" they were.

So settle my bar bet and tell me this: are you still playing 5e if you use the 30+ "new rules" listed by WotC? How many new rules does it take for you to call something a new edition?

so you are calling it 6e because WotC explicitly said that it is not a new edition… I can understand the rationale for 1) even though I do not agree with it, but 2) is just plain weird as a reason

I'll rephrase: it's important to draw attention to lies. Especially when the liar won't come clean.

 

[Remathilis]

So settle my bar bet and tell me this: are you still playing 5e if you use the 30+ "new rules" listed by WotC? How many new rules does it take for you to call something a new edition?

Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: "5e" is a rather nebulous term now, isn't it? Am I playing 5e if I'm playing Level Up? Tales of the Valiant? What if I mix them together with stuff from the 2024 PHB AND Xanathar's Guide to Everything? What if I pull monsters from Doctors & Daleks or Adventures in Middle Earth 5e? Hell, let's make it simple: what if I'm using the revised race rules from Monsters of the Multiverse and the revised class features from Tashas alongside the level 1 feats from Dragonlance? At what point did it stop being 5e to you?

The reason its all 5e is because they are all roughly compatible in ways that the 4e Monster Manual or the 3.5 Spell Compendium aren't. Its not perfect (some conversion is needed to make it all place nicely) but its all doable. My first 2024 game is going to feature a bunch of previously played PCs updated to the new rules and run through Vecna: Eve of Ruin. Yes, some characters will need updating, but the general rules are compatible enough that I am able to use prior subclasses, feats, and species with no problems.

For me, an edition break happens when things stop being compatible. Nothing in 2024 has made anything in 2014 (or any 3pp material for that matter) unplayable. Which was NOT the case when 3e became 4e or 4e became 5e. Its not 6e. Its at best 3.5 and doesn't even reach the level of 1e to 2e.

Sorry you lost your bet.

 

[Stormonu]

Not 100% true. Some conversion documents for 3.0 to 3.5 rules were almost as big as the original product. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil essentially would have needed a rewrite to work with 3.5 and the nerfing of spells essentially undermined City of the Spider-Queen. The changes were so extensive that they had to release the Player's Guide to FR to bring the FRCS in alignment with the 3.5 rules. Part of the D20 bubble popping was that once 3.5 came out and the rules were so extensively changed in so many small ways that many 3pp products sat on shelves as unusable with 3.5 without a lot of work. I managed a gaming & comic store. We couldn't even give the stuff away.

Gads. When 3.5 came out, my initial plan was to keep my 3.0 books, download the changes and stick them in my book. After making the mistake of printing out the PHB errata, I said "scew this" and went out and bought the 3.5 books.

I did keep a lot of the 3.0 books I did have, and used them on occasion - until a 3.5 version came out. But, like many others,I didn't buy more 3.0 stuff after 3.5 came out, and saw my FLGS buried in 3.0 product they couldn't sell (or give away). Even though with minimal work it would have worked fine with 3.0. Just no one wanted to deal with that extra overhead for a game that was already pretty heavy in mechanics and rules minituia (Gods, it reminds me of the "math problems" to qualify as a RPGA DM).

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

After making the mistake of printing out the PHB errata, I said "scew this" and went out and bought the 3.5 books.

And this is exactly what they're hoping people will do again with 5.5

 

[MockingBird]

After getting the rule book and going through it I'm still confused on how people push this into a "new edition".

 

[Remathilis]

After getting the rule book and going through it I'm still confused on how people push this into a "new edition".

Because people try to justify that their not liking it is something other than personal taste. It's not enough to say "I looked at the new rulebook and it's not for me.", they have to show objectively that WotC is being deceptive and manipulative with them so that their refusal is framed as an act of heroic rebellion. The narrative is that WotC is Evil and therefore cannot be capable of anything good, so even if the 2024 books are good, they must find the conspiracy that makes them still evil (they are secretly 6e. They are built for Sigil/MMO play, they are only designed to invalidate the old books and make you rebuy everything).

It's one thing to say "these books aren't for me and my group, but I wish WotC the best of luck." But people are actually rooting for WotC to fail. And frankly, I think it speaks to the fandom in general that "no D&D is better than bad D&D" has become a mantra for the hobby itself rather than a way to handle abusive DMs.

 

[GMMichael]

After getting the rule book and going through it I'm still confused on how people push this into a "new edition".

6e has 32 new rules, including some things as basic as "d20 test," "occupied space," "object," "per day," and "passive perception." Interestingly:

• d20 Test seems to finally put a label on the source of ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. For those who knew they were all basically the same roll, couldn't quite put a finger on it, and wanted to call it something other than "check" anyway.
• An occupied space has a creature in it or is completely filled by objects. Therefore, a section of stone wall, 5x5x5 feet, that has suffered the loss of one stone, is not occupied.
• Undead are objects: as non-living, distinct things. If they weren't before.
• Days are not defined by hours. They're defined by rests. The sun will be very confused.
• Passive perception seems to have lost its association with hiding. So your Ally (also a new rule) can't see you if his passive perception isn't high enough, and he doesn't make a Wisdom Perception Check to spot you.

6e Fun fact: all NPCs are now monsters.

"Rulings not rules" has clearly been laid to rest. Another 38 rules have been "revised." You don't have to call it a new edition. Revised 5e might be appropriate, but 6e is so much faster to type, and not any less correct than R5e or even 5.5e.

PS 6e Fun fact: all beings are creatures. No mention of what a being is, though.

 

[MockingBird]

6e has 32 new rules, including some things as basic as "d20 test," "occupied space," "object," "per day," and "passive perception." Interestingly:

• d20 Test seems to finally put a label on the source of ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. For those who knew they were all basically the same roll, couldn't quite put a finger on it, and wanted to call it something other than "check" anyway.
• An occupied space has a creature in it or is completely filled by objects. Therefore, a section of stone wall, 5x5x5 feet, that has suffered the loss of one stone, is not occupied.
• Undead are objects: as non-living, distinct things. If they weren't before.
• Days are not defined by hours. They're defined by rests. The sun will be very confused.
• Passive perception seems to have lost its association with hiding. So your Ally (also a new rule) can't see you if his passive perception isn't high enough, and he doesn't make a Wisdom Perception Check to spot you.

6e Fun fact: all NPCs are now monsters.

"Rulings not rules" has clearly been laid to rest. Another 38 rules have been "revised." You don't have to call it a new edition. Revised 5e might be appropriate, but 6e is so much faster to type, and not any less correct than R5e or even 5.5e.

PS 6e Fun fact: all beings are creatures. No mention of what a being is, though.

I have the book, you're not going to convince me it's 6e. 5e24 is just as fast to type out.