Reworking Skills

[reciprocalzero]

I'm considering house ruling D&D's skill system to make it more like the skills of Ars Magica. What this would mean is that every rank in a skill, instead of costing one skill point, would cost a number of skill points equal to the rank being purchased--that is to say, the first rank would cost one point, the second rank would cost two points, the third rank would cost three, and so on. The total costs, then, would be one point for one rank, three for two, six for three, and so on. This would do two things, I think: it would keep the differences between PC and NPC skill ranks down far enough that NPCs would have a reasonable chance of doing things such as detecting PCs who are bluffing or hiding, and it would encourage PCs to have a wider variety of skills.

However, I do still want it to be possible for PCs to become good at skills, so I would (probably) have the skill point total for PCs at each level multiplied by half the PC's level (except at first, when it would still be a flat x4), and I would periodically award individual skill points in skills that the PCs used frequently. As an additional benefit, this would make it possible for NPCs to have high skill ranks without also having high levels. Also, I would still want characters with higher skill ranks to win consistently, so I might rule that skill rolls are made on 2d10, though that might make things more consistent than I'd like.

My question to you is: does this system seem at all workable? Can things be done to make it actually work, or should I abandon this foolishness now and learn to accept the (relatively minor) faults of the skill system as it is?

 

[smootrk]

I think your system has merits, but you have to ultimately reorganize all skill related functions for this extreme variation. Maybe a more graduated scale like:
first 5 ranks costs = 1x (normal)
second 5 ranks costs = 1.5x (ie. 1.5 skill points to buy 1 rank of class skill)
third 5 ranks costs = 2x

It would ultimately cost much less than your method, but you could keep the existing skill DC structure intact or with only minor tweaks.

 

[deltadave]

it works well, you just have to realize that most skills will top out at about 5 or so unless the player really wants to max out - getting to level 10 of a skill will cost 55 skill points. Also you need to allow skill points to be accumulated between levels and not be spent immediately. I actually think that the DC system as designed works better with pyramidal purchasing than the flat model currently in use.

Using this method also allows the DM to award skill points as a reward for good roleplaying use of a skill.

 

[Thondor]

Well I assume that your also planning to reduce DC's accordingly, to a certain extent anyway.
For all the opposed stuff it's no problem but for the others hmmmmm
Anything over 25=nearly impossible ie. like those DC 40 open lock checks
have to reduce everything (and I suggest the 2D10)
DC 40= 25
DC 30= 24
DC 25= 22
DC 20= 18
DC 15= 14
DC 10= 10
DC 5 = 6
All skills are trained only if not -4 (maybe to steep?)
You cannot take 10 unless you have 2ranks (not stat based) or 20 till 4 ranks
If you have 3 ranks you can always take 10. With 5 ranks 12.
Stat modifiers will be half, round down, (or according to where on the border they are i.e. a 17 get's 2 but a 16 get's 1)

Wow I like this idea a lot I think I'll test her out.
I like the idea that this will add more consistency to the characters ability to perform the routine activities at low level. That it'll encourage taking a wider array of skills. That really who says an acceptionally alert 1 level commoner ( a good dice role) shouldn't have a chance at spotting a 20th level rogue?
The realism of this system. My goodness.
Your beginning seems to be related to the system the WORLD OF DARKNESS uses (VAMPIRE MAGE)
I'm sure it won't appeal to all.
Besides there's to many skills that have max DC's of maybe 20 I think there's some that only have 15! Without a reasonable chance of failure what's the point of it being a skill?

 

[Thondor]

Waitaminute! let's think about your multiplying skill points by half level

A 15th level Barbarian (X4) would have a total of 242 skill points
that would be 60.5 points towards maxing something.
55 points = +10
66 points = +11

7th level Barbarian would have total of 44 skill points
that would be 11 points to spend towards maxing
10 points = +4
15 points = +5

18th lvl Barbarian would have a total of 344
that's max on one skill 86
78 points = +12
91 points = +13

seems by instituting that change you seem to be cutting the possible max by to 3/4 of the current.
My above comment didn't take this facet into account

 

[reciprocalzero]

I seem to have failed to mention that I don't intend to limit skill ranks by level. It's just that it would require a lot of practice to get skills to high levels without gaining class levels.

The idea behind multiplying skill points by half of level is actually just to discourage people from taking their skill ranks to the normal max. A character who tries for the usual level+3 ranks to "max out" a skill should only be able to max out about half as many skills as normal. A truly dedicated character could devote all of his or her skill ranks to one skill, and beccome insanely good at it--but my hope is that most characters would find it more effective to distribute their skill points a little bit more broadly, especially since the first few ranks of a skill will be very easy to aquire, relatively speaking.

And you're right, I do intend to adjust the skill DCs--but I'll probably play that by ear, since I don't know exactly how much that will actually be required.

 

[Blue]

My concern would be that this really limits skill ranks while the variation is still rolled on a d20. If a "journeyman" would have a sill at 5 ranks, and a master have the skill at 10 ranks (having spend 10+9+8+7+6=40 skill points to increase), that's a small amount compared to a d20.

For characters, who advance levels often, the skill point multiplier might help, but unless all of the NPCs are also high level, that's problematice. Want a master armorer? If's he's only 3-4th level (as set by your demographics), then he doesn't have the skill points to be a master armorer.

Also, at mid levels you have enough skill points that all PCs might as well get at least one rank in all of the skills that aren't used untrained, just so they can make cheks or aid another. It makes it really easy to pick up skills because of the advanced number of skill points and the comparative cheapness of the first rank of a skill.

That said, I still like the idea. I like skills that get harder to advance, and that mechanic replacing max ranks. I just want a bigger variation from skill compared to the roll on the d20, and that learning a skill in the first place doesn't become "nothing".

How about a vaiation on this. Don't increase skill points awarded. Buying ranks up to your level (or level+X) costs 1 point per level. Ranks higher then your level cost as you have for the amount over it. (1 rank higher, +1 point, 2 ranks higher, +2 points, etc.) This keeps skill points rare enough that PCs just don't pick up every skill, and makes that as getting advanced skills (compared to their level) costly.

Hmm, not quite the same feel as you propose. Oh well, plunder any ideas you want from it.

Cheers,
=Blue