Rhemoraz CR7?
- Thread starter Shard O'Glase
- Start date
IceBear
Explorer
Axiomatic Unicorn said:
I also said that I agree with you that 99% of the time that's exactly how an ambush works. But, you also have to remember that you don't always get spot and listen checks if the situation doesn't call for it. To me, this is a special case.
1) Can you see the worm unless it comes to the surface?
No. Thus you can't spot it.
2) When does it come to the surface?
During the surprise round. So, again no Spot check before the attack.
I'm allowing a Wilderness Lore check in this case just as an aid to the players. If I wanted to be technical about it, I probably should only allow a Listen check.
I am well aware that this is the rules forum, and I don't think I'm talking house rules here. I'm just applying how I understand someone being underground, you can't spot them because there is no line of sight to them. Just like you can't spot someone on the other side of a wall.
IceBear
Axiomatic Unicorn
First Post
Shard O'Glase said:
I can not dispute any of this. I don't think it is the intended view, but there is no absolute way to say. If you could not spot them, some official rules for how to avoid them should have been provided, or at least a flat DC with a skill to use against it. But the lack of said rules could either mean that the normal method should be used or the WotC failed to think about it enough.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Axiomatic Unicorn said:
Spot v hide when you are hidden sure spot v base dc to notice signs. Check out tracking the dcs aren't based upon someone hide skill even when you use spot to notice the easy to spot tracks. Spot v hide in this instance lets see hide+1dex-7 size roll of 10=dc4 so if it hiding behind some trees they have a good chance to notice it. "hiding" behind 100% cover the dc is + infinity, because you just can't spot a creature behind 100% cover without x-ray vision or some other super sense.
They didn't list some great hiding ability because the rules of 100% cover all ready handle that. Now if you want to disagree on how noticeable the signs are for creatures that burrow fine, make it easy and say it is DC 5 or 10 or something. Me I think considering it is 10' under ground it will cause maybe just a little more disturbance as a gopher does 6 inches under ground as in virtually none for the gopher and maybe that way unusual bumpy natural ground for the Remhoraz I'd say spot check 5-10 to notice the gorund is bumpy, spot check 25+ for it to be noticeable enough where as a dm I would mention it to you so you would take note of it wilderness lore checks I'd lower the dc to me telling you about it to maybe 15+.
Axiomatic Unicorn
First Post
That is all fine and logical. But what does that do to the value of the monster?
If the DC to notice is 25ish, it will be fair to assume that a party below 10th level has a good chance to be caught by surprise.
A surprised party has a very good chance of losing a party member. Beating a grapple check against a STR 26 Huge creature will be very tough, so you are taking 2d8+12+10d10 per round, until you die. (Read not very long)
If a member of the party is tough enough to not die quickly from this attack, then it follows that the party should have no problem making short work of the monster.
Either way it is not fun.
If the DC to notice is 25ish, it will be fair to assume that a party below 10th level has a good chance to be caught by surprise.
A surprised party has a very good chance of losing a party member. Beating a grapple check against a STR 26 Huge creature will be very tough, so you are taking 2d8+12+10d10 per round, until you die. (Read not very long)
If a member of the party is tough enough to not die quickly from this attack, then it follows that the party should have no problem making short work of the monster.
Either way it is not fun.
Axiomatic Unicorn
First Post
That is all fine and logical. But what does that do to the value of the monster?
If the DC to notice is 25ish, it will be fair to assume that a party below 10th level has a good chance to be caught by surprise.
A surprised party has a very good chance of losing a party member. Beating a grapple check against a STR 26 Huge creature will be very tough, so you are taking 2d8+12+10d10 per round, until you die. (Read not very long)
If a member of the party is tough enough to not die quickly from this attack, then it follows that the party should have no problem making short work of the monster.
Either way it is not fun.
If the DC to notice is 25ish, it will be fair to assume that a party below 10th level has a good chance to be caught by surprise.
A surprised party has a very good chance of losing a party member. Beating a grapple check against a STR 26 Huge creature will be very tough, so you are taking 2d8+12+10d10 per round, until you die. (Read not very long)
If a member of the party is tough enough to not die quickly from this attack, then it follows that the party should have no problem making short work of the monster.
Either way it is not fun.
IceBear
Explorer
Exactly Shard.
The remhoraz is no more using the Hide skill when it is burrowed underground than I am when I walk into another room and shut the door.
Also, with regards to the lack of rules for other methods of detection. It's probably a little bit of an oversight along with the fact that it would be diffcult. As I said, it would be two completely different DCs if in one case the remorhaz was 5ft under the snow after just burrowing 50ft across a clearing and had just settled into position when the party got there, and in the other it burrowed UP from the bottom of the glacier stopping 20ft from the surface and then had a foot of snow dumped on it after getting into position.
IceBear
The remhoraz is no more using the Hide skill when it is burrowed underground than I am when I walk into another room and shut the door.
Also, with regards to the lack of rules for other methods of detection. It's probably a little bit of an oversight along with the fact that it would be diffcult. As I said, it would be two completely different DCs if in one case the remorhaz was 5ft under the snow after just burrowing 50ft across a clearing and had just settled into position when the party got there, and in the other it burrowed UP from the bottom of the glacier stopping 20ft from the surface and then had a foot of snow dumped on it after getting into position.
IceBear
IceBear
Explorer
I don't really use the CR that much to determine whether or not my party can handle a monster. I tend to know them well enough to decide if they can handle an encounter or not. That said, I've never been involved in these CR and ECL and EL discussions and I'm not now 
Now, there is no doubt that this is a deadly monster, but again my ramhoraz would rarely destroy a party. Why? Because I play them as an ambush hunter. It pops up, it attacks, swallows some food and then retreats to digest. It's not going to stick around to kill everyone unless they pursue it or if it's REALLY hungry, guarding nest, etc.
Also, as my DM's preogative, after the first couple of encounters with these beasties, I would lower the DC to detect the signs of an ambush.
I know it's not as cut and dried as an opposed Hide vs Spot, but I do believe it's the most accurate way.
IceBear
Now, there is no doubt that this is a deadly monster, but again my ramhoraz would rarely destroy a party. Why? Because I play them as an ambush hunter. It pops up, it attacks, swallows some food and then retreats to digest. It's not going to stick around to kill everyone unless they pursue it or if it's REALLY hungry, guarding nest, etc.
Also, as my DM's preogative, after the first couple of encounters with these beasties, I would lower the DC to detect the signs of an ambush.
I know it's not as cut and dried as an opposed Hide vs Spot, but I do believe it's the most accurate way.
IceBear
