Rich Baker says a little on paragon adventure(s)

[Doug McCrae]

While both of the items you listed were stated as design objectives, it doesn't guarantee that the jump between tiers won't be jarring/noticeable.

I guess the tier jump will be very noticeable, as Rich Baker is saying that's the whole point of tiers, that they should be clearly different, one from the other. Within tiers though, it should be a much smoother ride than any previous edition.

Whether it's jarring (ie bad change) or refreshing (ie good change) depends on whether you think the concept of tiers is good or bad.

 

[Abstraction]

I hear a lot about 4E being more "high-fantasy" or "anime" or whatever. Everything I read makes me think: more mythological, fairy-tale and folk-tale oriented. Not a bad thing in my book.

 

[Cryptos]

And note that there's a big difference between a "brief jaunt" to another plane and a "long sojourn" there.

The first involves, I would imagine, pursuing foes into the Feywild or Shadowfell and returning. It's like when characters in myth and legend journey to the land of the dead. I think it's more telling that this is mostly reserved for Paragon-level play rather than for heroic level play.

Visiting the underworld or the faerie realm is pretty common among great heroes. Just a few examples off the top of my head are Hercules, Odysseus, Jason, Orpheus, Pwyll and Gilgamesh.

Another good, recent example would be the plot in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

The player character can travel around dealing with everyday plots and dungeon crawls on their on initiative, but they have to make occassional sojourns to the plane of Oblivion to shut down the Oblivion gates allowing demons (daedra) to invade the material plane.

It's a nasty place, but it's not "everything is made of fire" nasty. And I think that's the approach they are taking with the planes in 4e.

The brief trips into Oblivion are like dungeon crawls in their own right. You dip into the plane of Oblivion for the sole purpose of closing gates to hell, basically, so that they don't endanger the city or kingdom.

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's a supposition, not a certainty. While both of the items you listed were stated as design objectives, it doesn't guarantee that the jump between tiers won't be jarring/noticeable.

You may have forgotten, but:

Heroic, paragon, epic tiers are "not hard-edged boundaries", so a 9th-level character isn't all that different from a 11th-level character, but there are some mechanical differences. "The mechanics are informed by what tier you're in, but it's not a major change by any means." Different "tiers" do have different rules; not terribly different, but not exactly the same.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I had heard that this aspect of D&D was going to be amplified but I was hoping it wouldn't be the case. Sorry, but putting "saving cities or small kingdoms" on par with "jaunting to other planes"? Adventurers go from saving villages to traveling to other planes?

I think the whole tier thing is a VERY welcome return to 1e style adventuring, with some mechanical support.

Back in 1e and earlier higher level characters typically had different kinds of adventures (often through the rules mechanics of building strongholds, gaining followers, getting more involved in a political level etc).

3e introduced a 'back to the dungeon, across all levels' approach which I never liked. from 1st to 20th adventures were basically expected to be "go into dungeons, fight progressively stronger monsters" and that was it. No expectation of qualitatively different adventures.

Now if Heroic/Paragon/Epic tier adventures helps and supports the notions of characters doing different kinds of adventures in different tiers, I think that is a hugely, hugely beneficial return to, well, a kind of 'old school thinking' in a way. It could well end up being one of the best changes of 4e.

Cheers

 

[Bluenose]

I think the whole tier thing is a VERY welcome return to 1e style adventuring, with some mechanical support.

Back in 1e and earlier higher level characters typically had different kinds of adventures (often through the rules mechanics of building strongholds, gaining followers, getting more involved in a political level etc).

3e introduced a 'back to the dungeon, across all levels' approach which I never liked. from 1st to 20th adventures were basically expected to be "go into dungeons, fight progressively stronger monsters" and that was it. No expectation of qualitatively different adventures.

Now if Heroic/Paragon/Epic tier adventures helps and supports the notions of characters doing different kinds of adventures in different tiers, I think that is a hugely, hugely beneficial return to, well, a kind of 'old school thinking' in a way. It could well end up being one of the best changes of 4e.

Cheers

To me it looks even more like Classic D&D. The Heroic Tier being roughly equivalent to Basic/Expert, where threats were local and consisted often of low level monsters rampaging around the countryside - Keep on the Borderlands being a god example. Then at Companion level/Paragon Tier you'd move on to larger threats, things that threaten the whole kingdom, or perhaps start to carve out your own realm from the wilderness. And at Master level you could be working on your exit from the game, on your path to becoming an immortal, which sounds very much like the Epic Destiny Tier.

And I also think it's a good idea in principle, and I hope it can be done well.