Ridding Elves and Half-Elves of Darkvision

[Charlaquin]

It seems so utterly at odds with my experiences, that I question the data on that one. Is it produced by AL or something? Or perhaps it's variant-humans all the way down?

Same here. Everyone I play with tends to be of the “I’m a human in real life, why would I want to roleplay one in the game?” camp. But, the data shows pretty consistently that humans are the most played race. And it makes sense. Humans are maybe not most people’s favorite race, but they’re no one’s least favorite. They’re easy to identify with, easy to roleplay convincingly, they’ve got the simplest mechanics, and they’re a strong choice to go with any class. Still, interesting that my annecdotal experience is so different from the general trends.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The most popular race in the groups I play in is halfling, which is the other race that doesn't get darkvision. So I don't think darkvision is a major factor in race selection.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

The most popular race in the groups I play in is halfling, which is the other race that doesn't get darkvision. So I don't think darkvision is a major factor in race selection.

Strangely enough, it wasn't with my group. But, everyone ended up with it (sans the Dragonborn, which I house-ruled could have it due to my error) anyway, and that is what got me thinking about all this.

 

[Coroc]

Hav you ever been in a forest in a moonless night? It is as dark as it would be in a cave without a light source. So elves having superior sight is highly justified, no less than for dwarves.

Just altering the rules for mechanical reasons is a bit weird for me. If you like your party to do micromanagements of torches etc. of course that is up to you

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Hav you ever been in a forest in a moonless night? It is as dark as it would be in a cave without a light source. So elves having superior sight is highly justified, no less than for dwarves.

Actually, I have been many times and I have to disagree. Your eyes can adjust when a least some light is present (even on a moonless night), however a cave is completely different. However, your point does get me thinking: dwarves use fire and torches all the time in their homes, so it isn't like they walk around in pitch-black constantly. That being the case, why would dwarves really have darkvision either?

Just altering the rules for mechanical reasons is a bit weird for me. If you like your party to do micromanagements of torches etc. of course that is up to you

I find that kind of funny, sorry to say. Most of the rules exist because of mechanical reasons. If you are in a dungeon, and can't see without torches, planning for it is VERY important. I suppose you could assume they always have enough torches, but that takes away some of the tone and risk of being underground IMO.

But, like you said, the choice is up to you.

 

[Charlaquin]

Actually, I have been many times and I have to disagree. Your eyes can adjust when a least some light is present (even on a moonless night), however a cave is completely different. However, your point does get me thinking: dwarves use fire and torches all the time in their homes, so it isn't like they walk around in pitch-black constantly. That being the case, why would dwarves really have darkvision either?

This is why old-school Infra-, Ultra-, and Night- vision split was arguably better, at least in terms of verisimilitude if not mechanics. If a creature is just adapted to low-light conditions like the forest at night or lamplit tunnels, they should have better vision in such conditions, but still require some source of light, and should probably have little to no color vision in such conditions. Vision without any source of light should require specialized sensory organs that can see forms of radiation given off by the objects themselves, rather than relying on reflected visible-spectrum radiation. In my book, that means low-light vision for elves, dwarves, and orcs, darkvision for Dragonborn, Kobolds, and lizardfolk. Supernaturally enhanced vision like Tieflings have, I could see working differently.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The most popular race in the groups I play in is halfling, which is the other race that doesn't get darkvision. So I don't think darkvision is a major factor in race selection.

I see a lot of Halflings, Goliaths, Humans, and Dragonborn. I think most people are ok with needing a torch.

Actually, I have been many times and I have to disagree. Your eyes can adjust when a least some light is present (even on a moonless night), however a cave is completely different. However, your point does get me thinking: dwarves use fire and torches all the time in their homes, so it isn't like they walk around in pitch-black constantly. That being the case, why would dwarves really have darkvision either?

But, like you said, the choice is up to you.

Tbf, Dwarves don’t see in darkness the same as they do with light. They still need light to see in color, and to see clearly, so IMO 5e Darkvision works perfectly for them.

The side of this that doesn’t make sense to me is the races like drow. They should see clearly in total darkness, IMO.

 

[Satyrn]

The side of this that doesn’t make sense to me is the races like drow. They should see clearly in total darkness, IMO.

This can readily be explained by the fact that Drow live in the Underdark, a magical place riddled with light producing phenomenon, including luminescent fungus.

You can just say drow can't see better in the dark because those light sources hampered/modified their evolution. (Or the god who created Drow couldn't give them better darksight without comprising their lightvision)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This can readily be explained by the fact that Drow live in the Underdark, a magical place riddled with light producing phenomenon, including luminescent fungus.

You can just say drow can't see better in the dark because those light sources hampered/modified their evolution. (Or the god who created Drow couldn't give them better darksight without comprising their lightvision)

I could, but honestly with them having sunlight sensitivity, and IMO nothing they get in return really warrants that annoying a downside, I’m fine with letting them see clearly in darkness within 60 ft, and having normal darkvision out to 120 ft.

Id let a character lose the extra benefit with enough time on the surface, and also lose Sunlight Sensitivity.

 

[CapnZapp]

Hav you ever been in a forest in a moonless night? It is as dark as it would be in a cave without a light source. So elves having superior sight is highly justified, no less than for dwarves.

Agreed.

Of course, nobody contested this.

This discussion is about whether Elves and Dwarves should have the *same* kind of superior sight.