D&D 5E (2014) Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

[Paul Farquhar]

Sigh.

You don't get what constructive criticism means it seems!

I understand what constructive criticism is. Complaining that something doesn't do something it was never designed to do isn't constructive.

"I put my dishes in the washing machine and they all came out smashed!"

1. Folks who play D&D want WotC campaigns to be exemplary examples of the game.

No. That's what YOU want. It's not what "folks" want, because you don't get to speak for everyone.

2. And there are lots of great things about their campaigns. Great stories, art, lots of fantastic material. High production values. Lots of high quality art. That's why I/ others buy them.

Pretty pictures and justified type?! That doesn't seem like a good reason, and I have lots of stuff that is not produced by WotC that manages to have high production values.

3. But there are lots of problems with their material which they could avoid if they employed a better story editor. This is what many folks have been talking about!!!!

You have problems. They are subjective problems, not objective problems. You can say "I have a problem with this", you do not get to say "everyone has a problem with this", because you are not everyone.

I do support JA on Patreon. And buy other help on the DMs Guild site eg from Eventyr Games.

& Paul - please don't tell me what to do/ think, thanks.

I will stop telling you what to think when you stop confusing what you want with what "folks" want.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But take the issue of RotFM - the campaign assumes players will travel with Avarice, the Arcane Brotherhood necromancer - the writers in effect TELL the pcs this will happen but
1) it should never assume this
2) it offers no advice as to how the pcs will find Ythryn otherwise. Not one piece of solid advice - and ideally it should offer many possible routes forward. At points like this, I like JA's '3 clue rule'.

1) I assume you are confusing Vellynne Harpell with Avarice, who is the Evoker. Did you actually read the adventure?

2) There are clues in the Black Cabin, Lost Spire of Netheril, and Grimskalle that can lead to Ythyn with no input from Harpell. Chris Perkins does not underline his clues and write "this is a clue" in big read letters. He assumes DMs will read the text properly and are not idiots. Maybe a rash assumption! Or they can get the same info from any of the other AB wizards: Avarice, Dzaan's clone, or Nass Lantomir's ghost.

 

[BenTheFerg]

1) I assume you are confusing Vellynne Harpell with Avarice, who is the Evoker. Did you actually read the adventure?

2) There are clues in the Black Cabin, Lost Spire of Netheril, and Grimskalle that can lead to Ythyn with no input from Harpell. Chris Perkins does not underline his clues and write "this is a clue" in big read letters. He assumes DMs will read the text properly and are not idiots. Maybe a rash assumption! Or they can get the same info from any of the other AB wizards: Avarice, Dzaan's clone, or Nass Lantomir's ghost.

1) I assume you are confusing Vellynne Harpell with Avarice, who is the Evoker. Did you actually read the adventure?

2) There are clues in the Black Cabin, Lost Spire of Netheril, and Grimskalle that can lead to Ythyn with no input from Harpell. Chris Perkins does not underline his clues and write "this is a clue" in big read letters. He assumes DMs will read the text properly and are not idiots. Maybe a rash assumption! Or they can get the same info from any of the other AB wizards: Avarice, Dzaan's clone, or Nass Lantomir's ghost.

You sadly are an incredibly rude man! OK- I am working from memory but so what? You know who I mean.
And you think GMs want the campaigns they buy from WotC to be shite?
And no one ever said they aren't good other 5e companies! For the love of God!
What is the point?!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You sadly are an incredibly rude man! OK- I am working from memory but so what? You know who I mean.

Personal comments are not allowed in these forums, or I could say plenty about you.

And you think GMs want the campaigns they buy from WotC to be shite?

No, but I don't think they want to be treated like idiots or have player agency removed for the sake of plot either.

 

[BenTheFerg]

Personal comments are not allowed in these forums, or I could say plenty about you.

No, but I don't think they want to be treated like idiots or have player agency removed for the sake of plot either.

No one, no one has said anything about removing player agency or treating people like idiots. These are your words, which is why I despair at your ridiculous comments!

All folks were doing - me & others here on this thread & elsewhere- were commenting on the problems with RotFM- and it spilled over into a general critique of WotC campaigns.

Please stop having a go at me for having an opinion you don't like & moreover erroneously putting words in my mouth/ erroneously summarising the works of others like JA.

Just ignore me & I will ignore your existence too. Thanks

 

[Ancalagon]

Then don't buy it. Problem solved.

Then buy the stuff Justin Alexander writes instead since you think he is so brilliant.

Paul, I was going to reply to you but this is not discussing in good faith...

 

[Greg Benage]

I like the adventure, but it clearly requires DMs to fix stuff. Some of this stuff is the kind of thing DM's always have to adapt to their groups and campaigns, but some of it is clearly the product of multiple freelance writers/designers and not enough time for a lead developer to pull it all together into a coherent whole.

I like what I got for my money, but it shouldn't be an insult to anyone to wish the product had received stronger development. Having been there myself, I'll bet no one wishes this more than the lead developer.

 

[Blue]

Then don't buy it. Problem solved.

I haven't been part of this thread, I don't have a dog in this race. I don't read the Alexandrian to care about it. But your response just seems quite dismissive. As if any problem is only in the heads of those complaining, so the only resolution is for them not to buy it.

Yes, DMs should read through and adjust published campaigns to fit their players, their table, and their DMing style.

No, that is not an excuse for putting out sloppy work. An easy example is missing maps - that not a customization, that's something definitively missing. I hope you can see that there can be legitimate things that should be different in some published adventures.

There are a lot of community fixes to all of the published adventures. Not every fix out there is a real problem, or even if it is that that particular fix is an improvement. I am saying that the quality of published adventures varies, and that small to large improvements that cut across multiple tables - like supplying maps - can be found.

 

[Swedish Chef]

Our group recently completed Baldur's Gate. I ran it. I'm an experienced DM. And I was happy to make use of Justin's suggestions for certain sections of the adventure. Why? I'm older now. I don't have time to read and re-read a module several times in order to run it. If I'm paying for a module, I want it to provide a coherent story and consistent information. Justin provided simply clarity for me when I needed it.

We've completed BGiA and moved onto RotFM. One of the players is running this one. He is an experienced player but not very experienced as a DM. We've already tripped over the inconsistencies inherent in the opening of the module, namely how has anyone survived in the Ten Towns after 2 solid years of snow? There are simply not enough high level clerics to be continuously casting Create Food and Water for everyone to survive. The local wildlife would have been hunted to extinction within the first 12 months, or starved to death on their own due to lack of supporting vegetation. The entire food chain would have collapsed - no insects to pollinate plants or feed small predators. No plants to feed the herbivores that feed the larger predators.

Another inconsistency - why is no one outside of the Ten Towns area doing anything about this? Trade to a large section of the Icewind Dales suddenly ceases and no one can get in or out of the area due to snow covered passes? What about the UnderDark? If everyone can evacuate, Auril's plan falls apart entirely. Yet, apparently no one has any means of even just simply communicating to the Sword Coast that they are in trouble.

The premise behind the module is a good one. Take the isolation from John Carpenter's "The Thing". Sprinkle in a bit of "Escape from New York". Flavor with the dread of "Alien". Shake and bake and present. Unfortunately, the ingredients didn't mix properly and the final product is more of a dog's breakfast than a gourmet brunch. I did forward the DM a link to JA's write up to the module, but even then we've had to stop a couple of times and just say "Okay, we know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but instead of getting bogged down in these issues, let's just simply move on and try to have fun with it".

 

[Blue]

I understand what constructive criticism is. Complaining that something doesn't do something it was never designed to do isn't constructive.

"I put my dishes in the washing machine and they all came out smashed!"

Hmm, they were specifically calling out how that Justin guy was fixing them, so this sounds like hyperbole.

No. That's what YOU want. It's not what "folks" want, because you don't get to speak for everyone.

Actually, I think it's a fairly easy bet that when people buy a campaign from the people who publish the game, they want to buy an exemplary product. This sounds like you can't actually refute their point so instead you're attacking their ability to speak for "folks". If you want to claim that most people wish to spend money to buy a flawed product, I think the burden of proof is on you.