Rise of Skywalker: The Seen It/Spoilers Thread

[Imaculata]

They probably intended for Kylo to be the BBEG, but to many people shipped ReyxKylo and Disney was desperate to please people after Solo and Ep8 failed. So they had to bring in a new one. And when you want to play it safe, whats better than to reshoot a movie people like, characters and everything?

No, they clearly meant for Snoke to be the big bad. He wasn't supposed to die a movie early. Honestly, the moral gray that both Rey and Kylo are in is the thing that interested me the most about the characters. I shipped them as well, because I want to see Rey go to the dark side, and I wanted to see Kylo Ren redeemed. I think that was the plan all along. But Disney neglected to set this all out and put it in stone. They went with the JJ Abrams method of writing, which is to leave a ton of dangling plot threads and figure it all out later. They should not have done this obviously. And they should not have given Rian Johnson so much freedom to do whatever. The 2nd movie is the most important movie in the trilogy after all.

Now the Rise of Skywalker had to redcon a ton of stuff from the Last Jedi in order to close the trilogy properly. Lots of stuff, such as The Knights of Ren, Rey's parents, Rey's visions, Snoke's backstory, are thankfully brought back. I strongly suspect that Snoke was never intended to be one of many clones by the emperor, but it was a quick fix to solve this unresolved plot thread that The Last Jedi blew up, like so many others.

 

[Zardnaar]

They probably intended for Kylo to be the BBEG, but to many people shipped ReyxKylo and Disney was desperate to please people after Solo and Ep8 failed. So they had to bring in a new one. And when you want to play it safe, whats better than to reshoot a movie people like, characters and everything?

They didn't develop Kylo properly to be the villain. He got hurt/lost in TFA and got made to look like an idiot in TFA. He was also wishy washy on light/dark.

They had 3 choices.
1. Ineffective villain
2. Recycled villain
3. New villain.

3 bad choices.


When he is getting called Darth Emo and Darth Angst all over the net might not be the most effective villain. Hell Finn did the same character arc twice apparently the script for TLJ was written at the same time as TFA. They rushed it for the 2years between the movies as it takes around 15 months from from filming to release.

3 months filming 1 year post production.

Strangely enough the three films almost stand up ok judged as an individual film independent of the trilogy.

Consider this if RoS opening crawl popped up onscreen in 2015 would it be a decent jump off point for a new trilogy?

 

[Imaculata]

Consider this if RoS opening crawl popped up onscreen in 2015 would it be a decent jump off point for a new trilogy?

Honestly, they could have made two movies out of this. It would have given them more time to set everything up and right the ship, sorta speak. It doesn't have to be a trilogy, and more movies means more money. But of course there are contracts to consider, and a fantastic actor like Adam Driver has better movies to do. They probably wouldn't get him for another movie.

 

[Zardnaar]

Honestly, they could have made two movies out of this. It would have given them more time to set everything up and right the ship, sorta speak. It doesn't have to be a trilogy, and more movies means more money. But of course there are contracts to consider, and a fantastic actor like Adam Driver has better movies to do. They probably wouldn't get him for another movie.

Whose gonna have much if a movie career after this? And who gets bit parts or indie movies?

Adam Drivers probably safe not sure about the others. Oscars probably safe as well.

 

[Imaculata]

Whose gonna have much if a movie career after this? And who gets bit parts or indie movies?

Adam Drivers probably safe not sure about the others. Oscars probably safe as well.

That is a good question. Daisey Ridley hasn't been in anything impressive since The Force Awakens and I'm not sure if she has a lot of range as an actress. I can see John Boyega doing some voice work, but again, nothing sensational on the movie front.

Driver and Isaacs are the only two whose movie careers seem safe. Driver is in Marriage Story right now next to Scarlett Johansson, where apparently both do a fantastic job (haven't seen it yet myself).

 

[Zardnaar]

That is a good question. Daisey Ridley hasn't been in anything impressive since The Force Awakens and I'm not sure if she has a lot of range as an actress. I can see John Boyega doing some voice work, but again, nothing sensational on the movie front.

Driver and Isaacs are the only one two whose movie careers seem safe. Driver is in Marriage Story right now next to Scarlett Johansson, where apparently both do a fantastic job (haven't seen it yet myself).

Yeah Adams been getting critical acclaim and his Klansmen movie is good.

Boyega got Pacific Rim 2.

Daisy crickets

Oscars has Dune coming up. Could be great or a giant cluster. Also seen him in a movie he played a Nazi hunter.

But yeah my monies on Adam.

 

[Imaculata]

Lets also talk for a bit about how Disney pretends to be progressive. This was a nice article with a perfect title: Are We Really Going to Pretend the Gay Kiss in The Rise of Skywalker Matters?

Disney pretends to be progressive, saying that it is important for them that everyone feels equally 'represented'. There it is, that ugly word 'equal representation'. It is an ugly word, because it is a meaningless word. When all it amounts to is two blurry women who aren't even main characters having one short kiss in the background, it means nothing (except if you are living in Singapore or Vietnam, where the scene is cut from the film completely).

There is no progress to speak of here, when representation amounts to the financially safest way to cater to everyone as ordained by a commitee. They are eager to yell out how progressive they are, but they are more eager to keep it all in the background so they don't offend all those other people. To me that means that as a company you are taking no position at all. Basically what we have here is a group of business men deciding if they should or should not hide a token representation scene in the movie somewhere.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

That's not a bad structure, if they can make it work. IMHO if you want Palp's complete arc, though, we need the pre-prequel trilogy to set it up.

Sidious: a Star Wars Story? In which it's explained how he offed Plagueis and used the Force to make Shmi pregnant (he could create life, after all)? Everything was already hinted about... Would see it, though.

Sadly, I think the interpretation of episodes 1-6 as "The Tragedy & Redemption of Anakin Skywalker" was undermined by Episode 9 ... cause now his redemption doesn't matter. With a bit more thought they might have pulled it off, but then that would have required plotting the entire ST from the beginning, rather than improvising one movie at a time based on audience reaction.

I concur. Sacrificing his life to kill Palpatine and end the Empire (as was implied in the OT) has a lot less meaning right now.

At least the revelation about Rey's parentage provide explanation about her outstanding skill level, which was used by some to accuse her of being a Mary Sue (compared to Luke). Luke was explained because he was from the Skywalker line, reputed to be strong in the Force. Rey's skill level isn't an achievement of her own or being inexplicably good, she's simply the heir of an even more powerful line (the one who even created, as I read it, the Skywalker line). This should quell the accusation and provide explanation. No wonder she can mind control after just learning the existence of this power... it must be nearly innate if we judge it by Anakin "let's be an innate precog" standard.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't know why people claim that Luke shouled some outstanding skill level. His two big force accomplishments before he trains with Yoda are shooting a proton torpedo into the Death Star's exhaust tube without a targeting computer (but he actually recieved some training by Obi-Wan blind-fighting the training droid, and recieved a force spirit message during the scene), and him grabbing his light saber with the force (under some struggles). And in the same movie, despite the training, he gets his ass beaten by Vader in a light saber combat and loses a hand. His presence on Cloud City was mostly useless, because the rest is already escaping without him.

Rey already force-tricks someone without guidance, and she succesfully holds her own against a force-user in a light saber battle (and a force user that can do some fancy tricks like stopping a blaster shot at him, and definitely had training with Luke). I still don't like the term Mary Sue, because it's pretty much distracting from the actual issue this creates - it doesn't feel like Rey is undergoing a struggle or growth, and she lacks a bit in features that make her relatable. The tragic backstory of being orphaned could be something, but it mostly seems to be about her not wanting to leave the sucky planet she's on. But that doesn't really feel like something relatable, since that is usually not how being practically orphaned works. If we saw her searching for her parents across the galaxy, or if she in turn had problems creating connections with people because she fears to be disappointed and abondendd again, it would probably work a lot better. But none of that seems an issue. She has an instant connection with Han, Leia and Finn, and losing Han is only a brief, sad moment, she quickly moves on from it.

Lets also talk for a bit about how Disney pretends to be progressive. This was a nice article with a perfect title: Are We Really Going to Pretend the Gay Kiss in The Rise of Skywalker Matters?

No, we aren't, but the movie was so thick of plot elements that it's surprising they even had time for that tiny moment. And sure, it was just to put a checkmark on a list.