D&D 5E Ritual caster: can they create or use scrolls?

[billd91]

NVM

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Making scrolls, sure. I’d be Generous about using them, but RAW it definitely isn’t allowed.

 

[Ancalagon]

Making scrolls, sure. I’d be Generous about using them, but RAW it definitely isn’t allowed.

odd - by my read of the RAW, it's pretty clear they can't make them, but slightly less clear about using them.

 

[Ancalagon]

As I said I would be inclined to allow the fighter to spend time and money to acquire proficiency in Arcana and once they take the Ritual Caster feat them allow the scribing of scrolls and using scrolls but only on spells they have in their book and only as rituals.

the character already has Arcana, as he has the sage background (in fact, he's far more knowledgeable about magic than the sorcerer-rogue)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

odd - by my read of the RAW, it's pretty clear they can't make them, but slightly less clear about using them.

Interesting. They know the spell, and can cast it.

The rule might be different in Xanathar’s vs the core, but it says “In addition, the character must have proficiency in the Arcanaskill and must provide any material components required for the casting of the spell. Moreover, the character must have the spell prepared, or it must be among the character’s known spells, in order to scribe a scroll of that spell.”

So unless the argument is that ritual casters don’t know the spells they learn, I’m not sure what leads to a no.

For using, I suppose one could argue that since you are learning ritual spells that are on a specific class spell list, they count as being on your class spell list? That’s probably the logic I’d use when allowing it.

 

[Ancalagon]

Interesting. They know the spell, and can cast it.

The rule might be different in Xanathar’s vs the core, but it says “In addition, the character must have proficiency in the Arcanaskill and must provide any material components required for the casting of the spell. Moreover, the character must have the spell prepared, or it must be among the character’s known spells, in order to scribe a scroll of that spell.”

So unless the argument is that ritual casters don’t know the spells they learn, I’m not sure what leads to a no.

For using, I suppose one could argue that since you are learning ritual spells that are on a specific class spell list, they count as being on your class spell list? That’s probably the logic I’d use when allowing it.

the thing is, what is "known spells", what is that making reference to?

I see it as a reference to casters that don't prepare spells (like say, a bard). A bard doesn't prepare spells because they don't know many, but those they do they know so well they can just cast from memory, no need for a spellbook or prayer to "load them" into their mind.

A "non spellcasting" ritual caster can't prepare spells, and they aren't "known" in their mind like a bard/warlock/etc either. So by my read of the RAW, they can't create scrolls.

Now, if you think that "known spell" is just the generic "things the PC can do" vs the specific mechanism by which some casters have magic in their mind, then you are completely correct.

 

[Ace]

The rules are unclear, so it's DM's call.

I would allow it.

So would I. It feels on brand for "ritual book guy" to make written magic items.

 

[Ancalagon]

My view also. I think a very strict reading of the rules would not allow it but I think I would allow it. You need to discuss with your DM.
Out of curiosity, why does your party need a ritual caster?

Oh - and one more thing - find familiar (no one in the party has one)

 

[Mort]

Per RAW - not I don't think you can use OR create scrolls. The feat just allows you to scribe spells you find (and ONLY if they have the ritual tag) into your ritual book and then cast them as rituals.

Personally, I would probably allow allow casting from spell scrolls with this feat.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

the thing is, what is "known spells", what is that making reference to?

I see it as a reference to casters that don't prepare spells (like say, a bard). A bard doesn't prepare spells because they don't know many, but those they do they know so well they can just cast from memory, no need for a spellbook or prayer to "load them" into their mind.

A "non spellcasting" ritual caster can't prepare spells, and they aren't "known" in their mind like a bard/warlock/etc either. So by my read of the RAW, they can't create scrolls.

Now, if you think that "known spell" is just the generic "things the PC can do" vs the specific mechanism by which some casters have magic in their mind, then you are completely correct.

So here are the relevant rules that I’m referencing in my read of RAW.

“You have learned a number of spells that you can cast as rituals. These spells are written in a ritual book, which you must have in hand while casting one of them.”

If you’ve learnt a thing, you certainly know it.

“The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it.”

To master a thing requires that one knows it.

Between those things, the fact that you have a class spell list you are choosing rituals from, and the fact it repeatedly refers to you casting these spells, it’s clear to me that these are spells that you know and can cast. I don’t think there is anything in the rules that contradicts this, but I’m open to being proven wrong.