Rituals - A wizard can Raise Dead?

[jkohlhepp]

A couple things bother me about the way rituals are laid out in the PHB. The fact that seemingly anyone can cast a ritual from a scroll without meeting any prerequisites, and the fact that you don't seem to have to be *trained* in the skill that a ritual uses.

Am I reading the rules right, or are there restrictions on what classes can use what rituals, or that certain skills must be trained? Are other people bothered by the way this is done? Anyone got some house rules to consider?

I am thinking about house ruling that you have to be *trained* in the skill that a ritual is dependent on in order to cast that ritual. This prevents "classic" wizards from casting Raise Dead (a particularly egregious example IMO). But I'm not so sure it goes far enough.

Thanks for the advice,

~ Justin

 

[Rechan]

I personally have no problem with wizards Raising Dead. D&D is one of the few things related to Fantasy that makes a firm divide between Arcane and Divine Magic; meddling with the Dead is quite firmly in the archetypical 'Wizard' department, so I'm rather pleased that wizards could raise someone.

Secondly, I personally have no problem with a lack of training allowing folks to cast from scrolls. This way, if your party doesn't have an Arcane class, you can still cast rituals (because the greatest bulk of rituals are Arcane related). Mind you, you still have to make a skill check (if I recall correctly), so if you're not trained in Arcana, and you need to make a check, you're rather snookered.

From a narrative point of view, I consider an untrained individual casting a ritual from a scroll much like the "Wizardly apprentice/foolhardy youth getting the ancient spellbook and unwisely casting a spell from it". Although there is no relative danger to it in 4e, I could see you houseruling an unpredictable (or at least annoying) result due to the lack of expertise (I.e. training).

But, your house rule shouldn't effect the balance too much. Granted, I've never actually seen PCs work to acquire ritual scrolls in the first place, so YMMV.

 

[gtoasnt3]

The PC would, at least, have to have the ritual caster feat. At least this rules out most of the other PC's unless they devote a feat and change out a skill when they level up.

Our PC's have 1 wizard, 1 warlock, 1 ranger (archer and multi-rogue), 1 paladin, 1 warlord, and 1 fighter. They chose to go without a cleric, and having the wizard trained in heal makes up for it when it comes to rituals. So without a cleric and without a rogue, these guys have still been able to handle anything.

 

[jkohlhepp]

So if I'm reading the rules correctly, for 680g any level character can get a scroll of Raise Dead, and can cast it without any skill check. This just seems too easy to me. Not sure how to tweak it though, as I in general like the rituals system and don't want to tear it apart completely...

~ Justin

 

[Johnnii]

Not everyone can be raised from the dead. Usually it's the PCs that have this option, doing it on a random dead guy don't work unless the DM wants it to.

True resurrection at least doesn't exist anymore also. Get raised within 30 days or you're staying dead.

Also, the subject must be willing.

To raise a paragon character, the price is 5000 gold, and at epic it's 50 000 gp.

Also almost every epic destiny have features to subvert death anyway, usually once per day, so the ritual becomes very less frequent in those levels.

My own tweaking is a recommendation of 1 resurrection in a tier per character. Haven't had any character resses yet though, so I can't say it's needed exactly.

 

[disarray2]

So if I'm reading the rules correctly, for 680g any level character can get a scroll of Raise Dead, and can cast it without any skill check. This just seems too easy to me. Not sure how to tweak it though, as I in general like the rituals system and don't want to tear it apart completely...

~ Justin

680 for the scroll then the component cost, which as already mentioned can be 500, 5000, or 50000 depending on level.

 

[The Cartographist]

I'm a little leery of the Rituals system as it currently exists as well. One house rule that we've been mulling over is requiring a separate ritual caster feat for the different types of rituals, i.e. arcane, divine, etc. Surely (in our opinion) there is a difference in the expertise needed to cast an arcane ritual and a divine ritual.

On a completely separate topic, we have created and started using 'Martial' rituals. These are basically like 'Stance' exploits except that the effect lasts a whole day instead of an encounter, etc. In this way, the martial characters can make minor buffs to their AC or various attributes by casting the ritual at the beginning of their day. There is precedent for this type of thing in literature, and we thought it seemed like a good idea for 4E.

 

[DracoSuave]

I suppose, altho Ritual Casting isn't an 'arcane' nor 'divine' thing any more. It's a completely different power in fourth edition. Think of it like a 'Ritual Power Source' which is a different entity. Wizards, Clerics, and a couple other classes get it for free, but -all- classes have access to the 'Ritual Power Source' if they want it.

It really doesn't make sense to 'balance Martial classes' out by giving them 'Martial' rituals when there are no 'Arcane' nor 'Divine' rituals. Altho the idea of using rituals to get a combat bonus in specific circumstances isn't a bad idea, you should avoid making it a blanket 'spend 50 gp, get +1 to hit' or whatever, and you should avoid tying it to power source. Why wouldn't a wizard get a chance to cast a ritual that makes his fire go bigger? Rituals should NOT be tied to power source, they should be available to all who want them.

Also, bonuses to Attributes in Fourth Edition is -very dangerous- territory. There's a reason you see no items that give you a flat +x to Intellegence or what have you.

 

[LightPhoenix]

My only real problem with rituals is that many of them do not require any sort of skill check to determine their efficacy. In which case, why tie them to any skill at all? I would have liked to see them take the scaling of rituals based on skills a little further than they did.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Kill the sacred cows. Behold, the new, viable and flexible casting system.