Robert Schwalb releases his version of Warlord

Robert Schwalb, who designed one of my favorite games (Shadow of the Demon Lord), with a version of one of my favorite classes? Sold.
 

Comments

Kite474

Villager
Love it so far! Only real disappointment is that its yet ANOTHER Charisma based class.

Also I do find the idea of people being so prickly about someone giving orders kind of funny, like yes sometimes people just will take the lead hell some people even train for it.
 

Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
I find that the En5ider Noble class, the MHP Warmage class and the Arcanis 5e Fighter class remake (with the Tactician subclass) all make for better Warlord classes than this one.

Not Sold.
Could you elaborate on what makes these Warlord takes great? Especially curious about the Warmage.
 

Sadras

Explorer
Over 10 pages in a Warlord thread and no @Tony Vargas.

Consider me nonplussed.

EDIT: Just saw that the North American meaning of the word nonplussed is considerably different to the UK meaning of the word. In this instance it is very much the UK version being used (surprised..etc).
 
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Rellott

Explorer
Could you elaborate on what makes these Warlord takes great? Especially curious about the Warmage.
I’m not the poster you’re quoting, but I’m familiar with all of those.

The Arcanis tactician fighter archetype gets Int mod number of dice like bardic inspiration (that scale like those, too) that it can give to allies to apply not just to d20 rolls but to damage rolls as well. The kicker is that it has to be spent on pursuit of whatever directive you gave them, which could be as specific as “cast firebolt at that guy!” or as vague as “win this battle!” The tactician also gets maneuvers (like battlemaster, but no extra dice) that are all geared toward teamwork. Overall the archetype might be OP, but most of Arcanis’s stuff is a little OP anyway, so it’s fine as long as everyone else is using that stuff.

I am playing one on EN5ider’s Nobles right now (using the tactician archetype!) and it’s great. I have a few different ways to divide up my attacks while divvying out different amounts/types of attacks to my allies, while still remaining fairly in-bounds in terms of power. (Although If one of these was in a party with a rogue, it could help the rogue get sneak attacks off turn, which could be pretty strong.) It also gets maneuvers like the battlemaster, except it can only give those maneuvers to allies.

The Warmage is a great class by Mage Hand Press, with a lot of cool archetypes. It is an intelligence based class built around the concept of empowering and tweaking cantrips. The base class gets a number of cantrips but no leveled spell slots. The original set of archetypes are all based on chess pieces, with the pawn really into defense, Bishop gets 1/3 casting, knight gets offense/weapons, rook gets movement/stealth, and king gets leadership maneuvers. (They rolled queen into king since they’re both leaders, I guess). It’s probably the king archetype that the person you quoted was talking about.

While the Noble leans toward charisma, its tactician archetype can be done as int-based with little drawback. The Arcanis tactician fighter needs int as its secondary stat. The Warmage needs int as its primary stat. Combine that commonality with the ability to use teamwork based maneuvers that they all have, and I think we’ve hit on what makes a “warlord” concept, with some other good ideas thrown in that all seem great but couldn’t go in one archetype... but might could be combined in a class possibly with different archetypes.
 

Elfcrusher

Adventurer
Also I do find the idea of people being so prickly about someone giving orders kind of funny, like yes sometimes people just will take the lead hell some people even train for it.
See? Confirmation that people think it's the class that gives orders. I knew it!

Now if only you could learn how not be one yourself when talking about this class. ;)
You figured out my secret: I'm a Warlord IRL. So I can't help it.
 

TwoSix

Lover of things you hate
I find that the En5ider Noble class, the MHP Warmage class and the Arcanis 5e Fighter class remake (with the Tactician subclass) all make for better Warlord classes than this one.

Not Sold.
Kibblestasty (who did the amazing Artificer) is working on a Warlord next, so I'm very hopeful it'll be closer to what I'm looking for.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
I like the idea of a warlord, though I never played 4e.

But I would prefer an Int based option.

Battlemaster allows for both strength and dex versions after all, so an Int or Cha Warlord seems ok to me.
 

Elfcrusher

Adventurer
I like the idea of a warlord, though I never played 4e.

But I would prefer an Int based option.

Battlemaster allows for both strength and dex versions after all, so an Int or Cha Warlord seems ok to me.
Ok, to be less snarky for a minute...

I agree with this. As I tried to do with my Bravura homebrew a while ago, going with Int removes the "Natural Leader" bit that I find so antithetical to the D&D ethos, and allows you to use cleverness to manipulate NPCs, leaving your fellow PCs alone.

When I came up with it, I was taking at face value the claims that, "It's not about giving orders, it's about tactical options." Ok, so I tried to build something with tactical options that didn't involve dictating how other players' characters feel about your character.

Some Warlord fans liked that approach, but others seem stuck in the "No it must be pretty much identical to the 4e Warlord, and must include non-magical healing."

Sigh.
 

Marcelus14

Explorer
Anyone else notice a TWF warlord can get all of their normal action attacks and then bonus action hand out free ally hits?

Im sure this was mentioned. I tried to check but there are a lot of comments here hahaha
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
(Happily) guilty!
Well, at least you admit it.:lol:

Wait...no....seriously?!?!?! They had a section on "how not to be a douche while playing this class"???

I'm speechless (but laughing hysterically inside.)
I mean, half the classes in the game could use a similar section.

See? Confirmation that people think it's the class that gives orders. I knew it!
You figured out my secret: I'm a Warlord IRL. So I can't help it.
More confirmation that people who don't like the warlord see it that way, and make a big deal of it.

Ok, to be less snarky for a minute...

I agree with this. As I tried to do with my Bravura homebrew a while ago, going with Int removes the "Natural Leader" bit that I find so antithetical to the D&D ethos, and allows you to use cleverness to manipulate NPCs, leaving your fellow PCs alone.

When I came up with it, I was taking at face value the claims that, "It's not about giving orders, it's about tactical options." Ok, so I tried to build something with tactical options that didn't involve dictating how other players' characters feel about your character.

Some Warlord fans liked that approach, but others seem stuck in the "No it must be pretty much identical to the 4e Warlord, and must include non-magical healing."

Sigh.
Eh, it doesn't need to be identical, it just needs to accomplish the same basic things, like enabling tactical movement, and helping the other team members accomplish their "role" more effectively.

For some Captains (this is my hill, and I won't abandon it. Captain is a better name in every way), this will mean making attacks that leave openings for team-mates to take advantage of. For others, it will involve moving the characters on both sides of the fight around "the board" to create advantages for their team. For still others, it will be about leading the charge, dealing decent damage, while inspiring others to hit harder and take harder hits in turn.

IMO, a great Captain would have a subclass like what you built, and one that primarily grants extra actions and bonuses on actions, and one that behaves a lot like a 4e Defender with leader-esque auras, and an inspirational one that has non magical healing. And yes, we want non magical healing. I don't think most warlord fans are going to budge on that. If it has more of a cost than magical healing, fine, let it cost the target's Hit Die. I'd be fine with healing spells doing that, in fact.

But if you take elements of the Battle Master, Cavalier, and Purple Dragon Knight, Fighters, the Mastermind Rogue, and some of Mike Mearls' Warlord ideas on the happy fun hour, you've got a great basis for a class and some subclasses.
 

Elfcrusher

Adventurer
I mean, half the classes in the game could use a similar section.
Maybe, and I can certainly think of some annoying archetypes. Rogues who think it's ok to treat their companions as marks. Paladins (especially those of the AD&D era) who think they need to constantly moralize. Druids who think 'neutral' means "it's ok if my friends die, as long as animals don't".

But despite how common stuff like that is, WotC didn't add sections on etiquette for those classes, did they? (Although correct me if I'm wrong; as I've explained many times I skipped 3e and 4e so don't know what's in those books.)

And yet the Warlord fans, they concluded, needed to have it explained to them that they aren't the boss.

I wonder why?

(Actually, I don't. That was a rhetorical device.)
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Maybe, and I can certainly think of some annoying archetypes. Rogues who think it's ok to treat their companions as marks. Paladins (especially those of the AD&D era) who think they need to constantly moralize. Druids who think 'neutral' means "it's ok if my friends die, as long as animals don't".

But despite how common stuff like that is, WotC didn't add sections on etiquette for those classes, did they? (Although correct me if I'm wrong; as I've explained many times I skipped 3e and 4e so don't know what's in those books.)

And yet the Warlord fans, they concluded, needed to have it explained to them that they aren't the boss.

I wonder why?

(Actually, I don't. That was a rhetorical device.)
lol because it was a new archetype for the game (well, not really, but the mechanics supporting it were). No need to invent something that isn't there.
 
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Maybe, and I can certainly think of some annoying archetypes. Rogues who think it's ok to treat their companions as marks. Paladins (especially those of the AD&D era) who think they need to constantly moralize. Druids who think 'neutral' means "it's ok if my friends die, as long as animals don't".

But despite how common stuff like that is, WotC didn't add sections on etiquette for those classes, did they? (Although correct me if I'm wrong; as I've explained many times I skipped 3e and 4e so don't know what's in those books.)

And yet the Warlord fans, they concluded, needed to have it explained to them that they aren't the boss.

I wonder why?

(Actually, I don't. That was a rhetorical device.)
it was the 3.5 Marshal not the warlord...although many see it as a protowarlord.
 

R_Chance

Explorer
Back in 3.x I homebrewed "Captain" and "Knight Commander" prestige classes. This concept (Warlord) strikes me as something more suited to that or to mid to high level Fighter options. Maybe a Mercenary archtype / subclass with things built in at a higher level... well, we'll see.
 

Grimkrieg

Villager
It's charisma creep.

I've posted on this before, and it's definitely worth its own topic, but charisma has morphed from a dump stat that was often confused/conflated with "physical attractiveness" back in the day to a world-eating stat that will soon envelop all of Intelligence and Wisdom.

Nom nom nom.
That's ok. When Dex becomes a casting stat in 6E, Charisma can join the other five as a dump stat. We can have a whole section on how your lowest non-Dex stat is a story​ choice.
 

TwoSix

Lover of things you hate
Really the game could just have two stats: "Body" and "Mind".
The game doesn't "need" stats at all, you can simply narrate successes or failures based on your character concept.

Realistically, though, a game that's based on D&D but uses a different set of stats is simply one of a long line of fantasy heartbreakers.
 

Elfcrusher

Adventurer
The game doesn't "need" stats at all, you can simply narrate successes or failures based on your character concept.
For years I've been playing without stats. Or dice. Or narration. Or really any form of human communication.

I just close my eyes and imagine really great stories.

Best. RPG. Ever. (R)
 

TwoSix

Lover of things you hate
For years I've been playing without stats. Or dice. Or narration. Or really any form of human communication.

I just close my eyes and imagine really great stories.

Best. RPG. Ever. (R)
"Dear Dragon Forum,

You'll never believe what just happened to me in our last session. There was this elf maiden with an 18 Comeliness...."
 

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