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Robin IV?!

thatdarncat said:
That's right, except on two points.

You can add Static Shock to the JLverse, and I don't think Teen Titans is the same universe. Pretty sure of it actually.
But that's my point, we don't know at all if the JLverse's Robin is the same one as
the one in the Teen Titans cartoon, but what we know is that the JLverse's Robin is
a member of a JLverse's version of the Teen Titans from a comment made in Static
Shock. But is it the same Teen Titans? We don't know.

Personally, until I see something that directly contradicts that it is the same Robin,
I just go under the assumption that it is.
 
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dreaded_beast said:
Anyone know why DC Comics decided to change Robin in the first place?
Which time? The idea of Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing was Marv Wolfman's,
the then writer of The Teen Titans. He was able to convince editorial that it
was time for Dick to grow up. Then we got a new Robin, Jason Todd, who
originally was a carbon copy of Dick, but after the Crisis was redesigned as
an annoying teenage brat. The fans hated him and he was killed off by the
fans via Phone Election. A few years later we got Tim Drake as Robin, who
has been the Robin since and a fan favourite.

Of course, I assume you mean the current Tim Drake/Spoiler switch, I already
commented on that earlier:
Viking Bastard said:
Tim's dad discovers his superhero secret and from there deducts that
Bruce Wayne is Batman. Tim's dad threatens to expose Bruce/Bats, but
Tim buys peace with putting the cape and mask away. Batman, feeling
that he requires another Robin, picks Spoiler, since he's been training her
for a while.

Jamdin said:
I expect Spoiler to die or be seriously hurt during "War Games" and Tim Drake takes back the mantle of Robin.
That's what all the rumours point at. It seems to be a classic shock-tactic.

'War Games' is a summer crossover in the Batman titles, despite Batman
editorial had semi-promised that there wouldn't be any for at least a while.
The released plot-overview is that for some reason yet to be revealed, a
war is ignited between all the different gangs and freak-factions in Gotham.
It runs for three whole months, starting in early August.
 
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dreaded_beast said:
Cool synopsis WayneLegion.

Can you give any info regarding the whole Slade (Deathstroke) / Robin thing in the Teen Titans animated series?

I think the whole concept is cool, but is the same in the original comics?

Anyone know why DC Comics decided to change Robin in the first place?
In the comics, Deathstroke is a master assassin that has alternately helped and hindered the Titans since near the beginning of the New Teen Titans series. He has a sense of honor and a degree of fair play, but he's still a killer. He's a mercenary; he works for money and lots of it.

There really seems to be no connection between the comics version and the TV-TT version; what little we know about the TV version indicates he's much more of the 'master villain' type than an assassin, that he also seems to have some magical abilities, and that he's more concerned with Robin than the others.

I haven't seen any direct quotes about 'why the change' but the normal reasons are these (1) the writer wants to try a new direction for the character (2) they want to try to inject life into a fading book (Both Robin and Teen Titans are in the Previews Top 100 at 64 and 10 respectively, so that's probably not the case) (3) They want to see how fans respond to a change that's been proposed. I'm betting on #1. The only interview I've seen with Willingham on the subject just proved to me he doesn't know a damn thing about the character, so I'm just sitting back to see how all this pans out. From what I've seen over the years, Willingham is just a few steps up from Dave Sim on the insanity scale.

Now, just from what I've seen in the preview material, it looks like this is a normal, temporary 'I'm not a superhero anymore' direction. Tim still seems to have significant appearances in the book after 126, and that's not normally the case when an actual replacement has taken place. Also, in more practical terms, Robin is an 'A' list property as a boy and it seems very unlikely that Warner would allow such a substantial change like that to be permanent. But all that is just supposition.
 

One of the nice things about the Robin series is that he had a private life that was well detailed so the whole "not a super hero for a while" idea is interesting becuase seeing Tim in his private life is still interesting.

We'll see how it pans out but I think it is obvious he'll be robin again and not to long away.

As it has been said before there aren't any new stories or plots just different ways of handling it. I hope they handle this one well.

later
 

This sounds like a typical tempest in a teapot. Remember the 'Death of Superman'? The only folks who actually believed that Superman was truly dead were people who didn't read comics to begin with...fans all knew it was just a storyline/marketing ploy. This is the same way. As mentioned, Robin is a major character with broad exposure. Many comics fans have no idea who the Spoiler even is, let alone non-readers. But they all know Robin.

It's this continual cycle of upheavals and changes that helped push me away from comics in general. The escalation of 'events' across groups of titles or whole companies is just not appealing any longer.


As for animated Teen Titans Robin, there is no evidence, at all, that he is ANY particular incarnation of Robin, with the possible exception of his use of a quarterstaff, which would make him closer to Tim Drake than anyone. Since the producers/writers of TT have made it clear that they don't have any intention, currently, of integrating the two shows, I expect we won't learn either way.

The only implication that Batman even exists in TT came from "The Apprentice" part 2, where Robn says "I already have a father" and they transition with flying bats, and the appearance of one of the Wayne companies during a battle on the rooftop. None of the characters have had their regular names mentioned, and even if a JL crossover occured, it's doubtful they would come up then, either.

The strongest evidence is that, generally, all of the DC animated shows since Batman:TAS have taken place in the same continuity, although it wasn't always obvious at the time. S:TAS usually just made sly references, until the movie crossover. JL "Secret Origins" pretty much cemented it, as have subsequent episodes featuring villains from both series and references to previous events.

As for Static Shock, I've never watched much of it, but I think you might make a case for it being a 'what-if' crossover just as much as not. Either way, most of the evidence implies Tim Drake, not Dick Grayson. The "How long is forever?" episode shows Robin becoming Nightwing...but we don't know the circumstances of that, either. Note that Nightwing operated out of Slade's headquarters, for exmaple. :) And there's certainly nothing to imply that he couldn't have inherited the name from Dick Grayson or adopted it in his honor, too.

Of course, since TT Robin's personality really doesn't match any of the previous Robins in the animated series, you could argue it's not even relevant. B:TAS Tim Drake is almost happy-go-lucky...certainly not the driven, sometimes semi-obsessive 'mini-Batman' of TT.


Me? I secretly suspect he's actually the Mad Mod. :D
 

WayneLigon said:
The only interview I've seen with Willingham on the subject just proved to me he doesn't know a damn thing about the character, so I'm just sitting back to see how all this pans out. From what I've seen over the years, Willingham is just a few steps up from Dave Sim on the insanity scale.
Willingham has commented on that the Robin change was out of his hands.
It was a decision made by the higher-ups and had been decided on a long
time before he was brought on. Both the switch and 'Steph's fate', whatever
that means.

I'm thinking she's toast.
 

The best way to judge if series are set in the same universe is to look at direct crossovers of characters and events. Since we are dealing with licensed characters, the characters have to be identical to the way they are portrayed in that specific series.

For example, Batman and Superman definitely exist in the same universe. The characters themselves did direct crossover episodes. Justice League is set in the same universe since it has the same Luthor, Mercy, Darkseid, Brainiac, Joker, etc. from both series. Plus, events, such as Darkseid's brainwashing of Superman, are referred to.

Batman Beyond has also featured characters from both Superman and Batman. However, you can argue that, while set in the same universe, nothing which appears in it is canon since it takes place in the future.

As to Teen Titans, nothing which has appeared on the show has been directly related to any of the previous series (at least that I've see). True, there are the few moments that WizarDru mentioned, but that's just general DC Comics background stuff. Nothing in it ties it to any cartoon series.

So, is the TT Robin Tim Drake, and is he the same one from the other series? If he is Drake, I hope he isn't the same one. If you saw Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, you'll know why. I wouldn't want to see that happen to the poor kid. :eek:
 

I just saw an episode of Teen Titans yesterday that could lend credibility to the theory that Robin is actual Dick Grayson.

Spoiler:
The episode deals with the future incarnations of the Titans, and guess what name the future Robin uses:

Nightwing!
 
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Viking Bastard said:
Willingham has commented on that the Robin change was out of his hands. It was a decision made by the higher-ups and had been decided on a long time before he was brought on. Both the switch and 'Steph's fate', whatever that means. I'm thinking she's toast.
Yay :) Yeah, they usually make these decisions months and months in advance. I'd like a link to the interview or comment, if you know of one.
 

I found it through the www.comicbookresources.com forums, who recently
went through The Crisis of Multiple Forums, rebooting the whole boards, so
finding that link that way is not really an option.

I was able to scrounge this up. It's not the interview I was referring to,
which is newer, but it does have this comment:
THE PULSE: What role will Spoiler have in your run? She seems to have been fleshed out a lot with Jon Lewis's work, are you going to keep her an active part of Robin's life?

WILLINGHAM: Future plans with Spoiler were pretty much locked in, before I came onboard. For that reason I don?t think it?s my place to comment on them. Sorry for the cryptic answer, but there you go.
 
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