Rodney Thompson: Non-Combat Encounters

[Cadfan]

A WoTC developer is asserting in his blog that it's appropriate for the PC to determine which skill will get him out of a given situation (the History check to find the sewer grate).

I don't think it is a stretch to imagine that the PHB will incorporate this paradigm. Why else would he write about it?

Ken

Actually, he said that the player thinks up the ideas, and then the DM decides if it makes sense.

Basically, the players could use any skill they liked, so long as they had a good explanation for it, and the encounter gave rules on adjudicating those checks based on the likelihood that the attempt would be feasible.

 

[FadedC]

Yeah you can decide for yourself if your city is likely to have a sewer grate in it. As you may know skill challenges actually have players go in order resolving skills and the goal is to get a certain number of successes before a certain number of failures. If no sewer grate exists then a failed check to find it could result in a waste of time (failure) while a succesful check could result in the player realizing it doesn't exist (no success but try again).

This type of challenge is built for things that are meant to play out sort of dramaticaly like chase scenes, negotiations and similar things rather then just rolling one check and succeeding or failing at the whole thing is a result. Multiple rolls make your skill bonuses more important because your less likely to just get lucky with a single good roll of a bad skill, or get hosed from a single bad roll of a good skill. No reason you couldn't have done this in 3e either, but personally I certainly never thought to.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I agree, I wouldn't put a sewer there just because the player came up with the idea. However, in my 3.5 game, if there was a sewer beneath the city, and it had played some historical role. I would allow the History check probably at an increased DC to know it where as a Knowledge (local) or Knowledge (streetwise) would reveal the knowledge at a lower DC or even succeed automatically( if the character was from the city).

I used to feel this way, but in recent years, I've come to find it a bit tedious across the board. I don't want to have every detail of every encounter area (or larger setting) mapped out, and it frustrates me to no end when an intricate webwork of potential encounter hooks or useable terrain gets tossed by the wayside simply because it doesn't match up congruently with the occasions on which PCs need to use it.

 

[Lizard]

If this kind of information makes the 4E DMG we will be able to claim that 4E has a strong hand in encouraging roleplaying. The mechanics were always there (Rodney's article will definately influence my remaining 3.5 games), but this type of thinking was never spelled out in the DMG. Even as a long-time (25 years) DM I had not thought of examples such as a History check to find an escape route.

Huh. I've seen it done (and done it) in all sorts of games. "I've lived here all my life; do I know a route that maybe the guards don't?" "Sure, roll intelligence/knowledge/luck/whatever."

As I said on the blog, I was hoping for something like Dynasties&Demagogues or Spycraft; what we're actually getting isn't nearly as revolutionary/radical/deep as we were promised, unless there's big chunks of the system not yet revealed.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Just because a player succeeds in his/her history check, it doesn't mean that they found something like a sewer.

Yes it does. The idea is this:

PC: I use my History Skill to use superior knowledge of the local environs to escape the guards.
DM: OK, roll.
PC: 17!
DM: Cool ... um, ... <invents a solution just as effective as a 17 on a Hide Check> ... There's a sewer grate on the corner of 12th and Sooth Street that will lead you straight to the river and out of town.

The PC can suggest using any Skill he wants, and if the DM accepts it then success on the roll means he succeeds in the game. End of story. How that success actually plays out is a hand-waivey and DM-fiat, but you can't take the success away from the PC.

 

[Cadfan]

The PC can suggest using any Skill he wants, and if the DM accepts it then success on the roll means he succeeds in the game. End of story. How that success actually plays out is a hand-waivey and DM-fiat, but you can't take the success away from the PC.

Right, but the bolded part is key.

 

[breschau]

I'm so glad that Gleemax owns my brain.

Considering how crap-tastic Gleemax is, would anyone consider posting the blog here?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

unless there's big chunks of the system not yet revealed.

I suspect this to be the case. I'm not holding my breath that it will be any more dynamic, but they said it won't all boil down to a single die roll.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Yes it does. The idea is this:

Originally Posted by Example Game Session
PC: I use my History Skill to use superior knowledge of the local environs to escape the guards.
DM: OK, roll.
PC: 17!
DM: Cool ... um, ... <invents a solution just as effective as a 17 on a Hide Check> ... There's a sewer grate on the corner of 12th and Sooth Street that will lead you straight to the river and out of town.

The PC can suggest using any Skill he wants, and if the DM accepts it then success on the roll means he succeeds in the game. End of story. How that success actually plays out is a hand-waivey and DM-fiat, but you can't take the success away from the PC.

I didn't read that as the intent at all. The solution does not have to be as effective as the Hide check. The Hide check could keep you hidden until the guards give up their search. The history check can lead you to the old sewers, which does get you away from the guards, only to discover that an otyugh has taken up residence there and is happy to see a food source other than rats entering its territory.

Or even better, one PC uses his History check to determine that a sewer grate exists. Another uses his Streetwise check to relate the tenuous relationship of street gangs in a neighborhood in the area. Another uses a Sneak check to get past some guards that are patrolling in the area. Then uses his Bluff check to try to incite a street skirmish between gang members in the area. The party uses the diversion to get past the guards and into the old sewer tunnels.

 

[Propheous_D]

I highly doubt that the PHB or DMG will state "PC decides which check, and if GM agrees then the PC can win an encounter"

Couple things that people are just being silly about.

1. A single success is no longer the end all be all.
2. A History check for sewers may reveal their presence, but it doesn't do ANYTHING else.

PC: Uh I use my streetwise to find a back alley.
DM: Ok you find one off to the left.
PC: OK I dart down the back alley.
DM: THe gaurds follow you
PC: But I rolled man I rolled!!!!!
DM: And you found an alley.....What do you do now.