Rogue: 6 skills or 10?

[Stogoe]

This '10 skills instead of 6' idea seems to me to be a deliberate and willful misinterpretation of a fairly clear and obvious text.

You get Stealth and Thievery, and then you pick four from your class list.

Also, since skills are compressed, adding your Int modifier to your number of trained skills would pretty much mean you're great at everything. So I don't think that Int will add to your number of trained skills.

 

[fedelas]

reading the example of build down in the article i've noticed 6 skills.

 

[RigaMortus2]

You get Stealth and Thievery, and then you pick four from your class list.

If you get Stealth and Thievery for free, then why do they also appear on the Class Skill list?

What's the difference between Trained skills (Stealth and Thievery) and the Class Skill list?

It throws me off because the Trained skills are also on the class skill list. So does that means you don't get them for free? Why would they appear on that list if you are already trained in them?

Perhaps trained skills only count when you start as a class, but if you multiclass, you don't get the trained skills for free, you have to pick them off the Class Skill list?

 

[Derren]

What's the difference between Trained skills (Stealth and Thievery) and the Class Skill list?

Nothing. The class skills just say in which skills the rogue can become trained in, while he will be automatically trained in stealth and thievery. That they are listed again in the class skill list is probably because of multiclass considerations.
For example rogue training might allow a character to become trained in rogue class skills with a feat.

 

[Steely Dan]

This '10 skills instead of 6' idea seems to me to be a deliberate and willful misinterpretation of a fairly clear and obvious text.

Then you would be incorrect in my case.

 

[Najo]

Something else to keep in mind, characters get many more feats in 4e. Likely, they will have one every other level. Also, I am sure characters get more skills as they level too.

If either or both of these assumptions are true, then you are going to find it easy to increase characters skills through those options. These are just starting class skills.

As for the free skills being in the class skills, I would speculate that the multi-classing feats need them listed that way to function properily.

 

[Grazzt]

Also, I am sure characters get more skills as they level too.

Not if it works like SWSE. Characters have to select a feat (Skill Training, IIRC) that grants you another trained skill.

 

[Toryx]

I'm betting on six.

I don't think it's bad wording as much as faulty organization. But even if the organization isn't ideal, it isn't really misleading. Thinking they might mean an extra four for a total of ten really comes to wishful thinking due to the way 3.x works. As the designers have said repeatedly, a lot of the mistakes that occur from making assumptions come from looking at 4e from a 3.x perspective. The more information they release, the more clear that statement becomes.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

I brought this up in the two roguezilla threads, but I thought this issue deserved its own thread.

It already had it's own thread.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=219955

I suspect that not being able to find that thread and believing that the rogue should get 10 skills are related.

On my first reading, I thought the rogue only gets six. I thought that because:
-The way the rules repeat the number 4 in both sentences, possibly suggesting that they may be talking about the same 4 skills.

That would be a good clue!

-Of the way 3e treats skills: All skills are filtered through a class skill list. You can take skills cross class, you can multiclass, you can reduce the cost of cross class skills, you can add to the skill list, but nothing is free.

Not quite as good a clue, but one nonetheless.

But I have revised my original reading:
-For some reason, it divides what would normally be a very straightforward sentence ("Stealth, Thievery, plus four skills from the following list:") into two sentences.

Two of what kind of sentences?

-In the second sentence, it uses the word "more". While this could just be a throwaway word, it does seem to attempt to clarify that we are talking about four more skills.

In this case, "more" seems to be a synonym with "others".

The two sentences read fairly straightforwardly. One sentence is descriptive, the other sentence is imperative, aimed at the person creating a rogue character.

 

[glass]

reading the example of build down in the article i've noticed 6 skills.

Ah, we don't know yet if the primary source rules still say that text trumps example, but it probably does.

Anyway, I agree with the OP: Its 10 skills. It probably isn't meant to be 10 skills but that is what it says. Hopefully the actual PHB text will be better edited.


glass.