Rogue as martial character

[KingCrab]

Is anyone else upset about the division of all classes into three realms (arcane, divine, and martial)? This sounds bad for the Rogue and Bard to me. Could this mean that the rogue will be more defined around its role in battle and be forced into a sneak attacker role?

I've always liked this idea of arcane, divine, martial, and skillful that we sort of have in 3.5. There should be room for stealth and skill based classes as well.

 

[BlackMoria]

My guess is that there may be fewer base classes but they will be far more customizable. I can see a martial class but with feats, talents, skill trees you can make the marital character a fighter, or ranger or barbarian or rogue, etc.

One report says that one class is gone from the core but will be in a latter publication and some suspect it may be the bard.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm not worried about it.

Skills are primarily used outside of combat. So even if you have a class with a lot of skills, you still need to classify it in some way based on what it does in battle. Rogues fight with a martial style. Ie, they stab things. So, they're a martial class.

That doesn't necessarily mean they lose their skills. Really, it doesn't say much of anything about how rogues will work outside of combat.

Personally, I never liked the trade off of out of combat skills versus in combat strength. I've long been of the opinion that everyone should get some of both. I hope this signifies a switch to this philosophy.

 

[Hjorimir]

I hadn't heard of those classifications (source?), but I'm actually encouraged! I hate how rogues (and bards) are third-tier fighters (sadly behind clerics and druids) as things stand today. Maybe their designation as a martial character will edge up their ability in combat, which is really needed, IMO.

 

[jasin]

For now, my guess is that this has to do with the "new power sources", and that the rogue will still be a separate class, and still very much rogue-like, but that it will share with the warriors the martial "power source": a Bo9S maneuver-like mechanic for its "special moves".

I wouldn't be suprised if sneak attack was turned into something much like a maneuver, that could be used unlimited times per day, but not quite at will. Evasion, slippery mind, skill mastery, skill tricks... they could all be easily ported into Bo9S-like maneuvers, if such is the default framework.

 

[Shadeydm]

I would be happy to see Rogues get an in combat boost without sacrificing their out of combat utility.

 

[The_Gneech]

Hey, rogues used to be considered martial characters in Rolemaster, too. It's not that weird.

Look at it this way, now your leather-clad fencer can actually BE the finest swordsman in the land...

-The Gneech

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! More sneak attacking stabby goodnessssssssssssssss!

*bounces up and down with excitement*

This is almost exactly the direction I'm foisting my Rucks rogue in right now. The lower levels were more devoted to the obvious rogue skills and trapfinding.

 

[Mercule]

Erm... What else would rogues be? Even in 3.x I tend to refer to rogues as martial characters. It's not like they're pacifists or something.

 

[Remathilis]

::crosses fingers on rogues getting d8s::

I think the rogue is getting some seriously updated fire power. First, check out the Scoundrel in SAGA. They have some good combat/sneaky talents that can hamper, weaken, or use luck and skill to match a solider, but the soldier has better damage in the long run (since they do less damage per hit, but hit more often. Rogues hit hard, but usually use more resources to do it).

Secondly, if you give rogues some of the ideas from other 3e books (skirmish, swashbuckler insightful strike) they aren't so hampered by crit-immune monsters.

also, more feats. More feats = more combat options. Rogues will be able to get extra feats like whirlwind attack or spring attack without sacrificing things like Imp. Init or Weapon Finesse.

Finally, a skill system similar to SAGA where skills are condensed and all skills raise at some rate would free the rogue from having to split ranks among a huge amount of skills to be mildly competent at these things (such as the skill point sink trapfinding is)

I can't wait.