Rogue Poisoner lv. 3

[TremorFang]

So my DM has decided he wants to try to DM Pathfinder for the first time. He said I should make a new character and I just wanted to know what you thought as far as if it could work well in the game.

I want to play a poisoner rogue and I want to make him the best at poison that I can.

Here is my current build idea: P.s. I haven't rolled or bought scores yet.

Human Poisoner
Feats: Lv.1
Master Alchemist
Skill Focus (Craft: Alchemy)
Feats: Lv.3
Superior Finesse (Asked DM, he gave the o.k.)
Rogue Talent(s)
Lv.2 - Combat Trick = Weapon Finesse (Needed for Superior Finesse)

He will be probably wearing Masterwork Studded Leather Armor, and using a Blow Gun and a Kukri as his primary weapons. Assuming I am able to get his INT maxed at 18, my alchemy score for poisons at least, should be 16 if I did my math right. Meaning barring the dreaded 1, I can usually hit at least an 18 - 20 DC for making poisons easy.

My problem with poison comes in 2 areas. One it isn't ability drain (Well most aren't) and the DC's for Fortitude saves seem so low. Though I have been told that since we are at lower levels chances are fortitude saves will be a bit more difficult for most. Are there any feats that I could potentially ask my DM to have that will help me in either problematic area?

Thanks, hope to hear from you.

 

[Dingo333]

it could work, I like the idea of the blowgun, but you might be better off with a crossbow as it will dish out more damage and you can still apply poison to it

As far as poison goes, look for anything that needs multiple saves and deals con damage. Also, see if you can apply 2 doses to a bolt/dart, this will increase the save DC some, but dont count o it to save your life all the time

On a side note, any particular reason a rouge, if you went alchemist, you will get bombs (about as much as a rouge sneak attack) and still have poison to put on thrown weapons/darts/bolts. 2nd level you can even apply poison as a move action (6th it is a swift action) and there are the extracts. It is a side idea that could work better at poisoning then the rouge

 

[TremorFang]

Crossbow might work. I only went with the blowgun because it was a bit lighter (between 3-7 pounds depending on the crossbow). Which I thought I might need since my strength is most likely going to be an average 10, meaning not great carrying capacity.

I like the double dose idea, forgot that they made that change.

As far as the alchemist goes, that has been the hardest part for me, is choosing between the rogue and the alchemist. I like the alchemist because he gets some good poison abilities and even a few discoveries as well as being able to make them quicker and easier. My problem with them is they would probably suck at delivering injury poisons, straight up handling a fight and zero social skills. On the other hand the rogue can handle himself a bit more in combat, has access to move silently and hide as well as bluff, with the poisoner able to actually change the method the poison is introduced (Ingested to Injury or Inhaled to Contact); but he is less quick and a little less efficient at making poisons. He needs certain feats to even try to keep up with the alchemist skill wise. Which reminds me, if I do play rogue, I might wait till 4th level to take the Superior Finesse feat through a talent, and instead take Swift Poison rogue talent and make Weapon finesse my regular feat.

So, basically I am still on the fence between the 2. One has a bit better skill and fighting base. The other is more efficient when it comes to poisoning.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Qik]

I haven't actually used this, but I came across it a while back and bookmarked it for future perusal. I'm a fan of alchemists, and I can think of a lot of ways to benefit from a better implementation of poisons.

Pathfinder Poisons - DavidVS

Edit: Just as an aside - alchemists can be quite wicked in melee if you build them right. Enlarge person, strength mutagen, feral mutagen discovery, bull's strength....you get the idea. They can take a lot of buffing, but can definitely get the job done.

0gre has a great guide for alchemists here.

http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/

 

[Mojo_Rat]

you cannot start with master alchemist. you need level 5.

 

[Thanael]

Check out this paizo blog post about poison

 

[Dingo333]

Another thought if you want an alchemist that is good in social too, is a gnome alchemist. The buff to Cha will help with social, and you can use daggers to throw the poison, a dex mutagen will help with hitting, as will point blank and percise, the reduced damage from small is not a factor as you are counting on the poison to do most the work

My group had an alchemist who was a traveling merchant, lots of social skills and he worked out pretty well over all

 

[TremorFang]

you cannot start with master alchemist. you need level 5.

Yeah, I just found out that they changed the way they do beginning skills last night. This bums me out.

Thanks for all the information. It, along with a friend's (who is a more experienced player then me) suggestion has helped me decide to go for the alchemist.

[MENTION=22734]Thanael[/MENTION] I bookmarked it when I read it. Thanks for the info.

[MENTION=6673727]Qik[/MENTION] These links are also useful, many thanks.

After looking into it, I have decided to go with the light crossbow, since for a bit more weight it deals more damage.

When I get what I am working on done, I plan on posting my build for my alchemist sometime soon and hope to hear what you guys think about it.

Thanks again to all.

 

[TremorFang]

Alright, so as I said before I am posting my current build for my alchemist. He is a level 3 Human Alchemist.
Attributes: [Note that my DM gave us a 35 point buy with 3.5 dnd rules. Meaning we start at 8 points then buy up.]

Strength = 12
Dexterity = 14
Constitution = 12
Intelligence = 18
Wisdom = 10
Charisma = 11

Not sure what to add the +2 ability modifier for humans to. I am between DEX or INT.

Feats / Discoveries:
Feat - Wealthy [DM allowed this from 3.5 as long as it didn't affect battle or communications. Will be using the extra money for both a ring of sustenance (Perfect for characters story) and a handy haversack (also fitting of the character.)
Feat - Skill Focus = Craft: Alchemy (Used for poison primarily.)
Discovery - Concentrate Poison
Feat - Extra Discovery (Either Feral Mutagen or Infusion) or possibly a feat that would help better, considering the next level has a discovery waiting. It would be quite interesting story wise if I am unable to share my infusions.

Chosen Extracts:
Cure Light Wounds - Its healing, so I don't need to explain.
Keen Senses - Useful in dark settings
Comprehend Languages [Not sure I need this one, suggestions for a good replacement welcomed]
Shield - Potential Battle Help
True Strike - Very useful with bombs
Crafter's Fortune - Used for the harder check's. Current Alchemy score (if I did the math correctly) is 17 with the alchemist's lab. With this extract is would shoot to 22.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[Qik]

Here's a few quick thoughts, with possibly more to come later.

- I'd shoot for a min. 16 in dexterity - pretty key for the alchemist's bombs, and doubly so if you're going to be using a crossbow/etc. Going this route, I think you could safely lower strength a bit, and could probably due with dropping charisma a few points as well. With such a high point buy, you can afford to max out int and dex, your two main stats. It might also be worth bumping wis to 12 to mitigate the low class will save.

- My take is that bomber's eye would be way more useful than true strike overall, though that may just be a personal preference.

- I think using feat for skill focus craft alchemy is a poor decision. With your high int, plus your class bonus (1/2 lvl, I believe), plus your decent amount of skill ranks, your lvl 3 alchemist can start with +11 in the skill easily. I think the feat would be better used elsewhere (extra discovery, perhaps, or point blank shot/precise shot, the latter of which is key for bombs).

- Infusion is pretty huge, otherwise you'll seriously reduce your worth to the party. Depending on the party, however, this may not be as important.

Just a few thoughts, hope they're helpful.